Legends of Equestria - Forum

General Category => The Retirement Home => Topic started by: AlDeezy on 2013 May 27, 20:25:50

Title: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: AlDeezy on 2013 May 27, 20:25:50
Things happened, people quit, information was leaked, threats were issued, apologies were made, people were banned, WHAT IS HAPPENING TO US?

I'm not back for a solid week and LoE has turned into this battlefield, where bullets rain from the sky and people disappear mysteriously? I log in to post ponehs and I find out what's been happening in my absence is the complete opposite of what this game is supposed to stand for. There's this stench going around the forums and I personally can't stand it.

LoE fans, stop talking about the dirty laundry and help pick it up. Spreading the message about what happened is all right and dandy but it does nothing if you pick sides. From what I've seen there's only one side of the story being seen in depth, and that's no justification to jump the gun. Pony up and don't perpetuate the downfall of this project. It's come too far to fail now.

LoE staff underlings, you don't like how you're being treated? Make your voice heard. Part of the reason why this whole shpeel turned out the way it did is because concerns were not heard. MAKE them heard. Find an alternative way to get them heard; this is the internet after all! We can not blame anyone but everyone for what happened and why it happened. This stretches to every. one. Kudos to all of you who quit, but shame on all who didn't speak up about it.

LoE Leaders, above all else, you dropped to ball. Nothing said nor done now can change what happened, so wear your mistakes with pride. Accept the fact you either took part in or watched others take part in activities that you know are wrong. Don't hide anything for the sake of your image, it's already been tarnished. Instead, grab a rag and get to work polishing it again. Apologies are a good start, but mean nothing if you don't follow through.

Everyone, move on. Don't dwell on the now for long. Look to where you want to be, and plan for what you need to do. This project is going to carry on with new footing, or it will die and fall into the vast ocean of the internet. Another failed game project. NONE of us want that. So let's just get it out of our systems now, rethink our positions, and change how we were doing, because obviously we weren't doing it right.

Post your thoughts, however trivial, below. Make yourself heard, so we can all evolve into not only a better community, but into better people.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Albino on 2013 May 27, 20:41:34
So does this give me free reign to post ponies? I:

[IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/9popyv.png[/img]

Cuz I'ma post ponies.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NYIuKtrphFA/TlBDbNJCYMI/AAAAAAAAKx8/n7-N8BU_u1Q/s1600/47719+-+artist+pony-spiz+cute+pinkie_pie+sweater.png)
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: AlDeezy on 2013 May 27, 20:46:16
Quote from: Albino on 2013 May 27, 20:41:34
So does this give me free reign to post ponies? I:

Cuz I'ma post ponies.



I suppose it does, yes. Thank you for filling my daily d'aww levels.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Nightmare702 on 2013 May 27, 20:59:22
This takes serious guts man... I envy you, and lets hope this gets heard and makes a HUGE difference (The good kind :D).
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Rissian on 2013 May 27, 23:32:02
Let's lighten this tension.
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: AlDeezy on 2013 May 27, 23:41:10
Very much agreed.

Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Billow Pillow on 2013 May 27, 23:43:13
This song is perfect for the staffs current situations, remember we're all human, and no one's perfect.  Let us all learn from Twilight's mistakes.



My Thoughts.  ovO

Spoiler: show
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Rissian on 2013 May 27, 23:50:13
And finally this song.  :3



But yeah just to cheer up people, we probably shouldn't post too many since it'd kinda lag.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Tekner on 2013 May 28, 00:07:12
Quote from: AlDeezy on 2013 May 27, 20:25:50
LoE staff underlings, you don't like how you're being treated? Make your voice heard. Part of the reason why this whole shpeel turned out the way it did is because concerns were not heard. MAKE them heard. Find an alternative way to get them heard; this is the internet after all! We can not blame anyone but everyone for what happened and why it happened. This stretches to every. one. Kudos to all of you who quit, but shame on all who didn't speak up about it.
I would like to publicly make myself heard that two team leads called me a potato and a doody head, respectively. My feelings were so hurt that I forgot how to cry DD:
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Tiger on 2013 May 28, 02:27:45
I'm not sure I'll ever fully regain faith.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: CyanideInsanity on 2013 May 28, 02:34:10
The wind does seem to carry foreboding news... Hopefully if it was as bad as it seems, it will be a learning experience... If not... :s Even now there are some things going about that I'm unsure of...
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Night Pony on 2013 May 28, 03:28:03
So let's see what's happening. Information was leaked about how TLs troll and namecall (amongst other things) members of their team and other team members. Instead of trying to explain their side everyone treat this as a joke and pretends that this didn't happen.
"Not always acting like professionals?"  Yeah you are proving of not acting when the situation needs.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Blues-Music on 2013 May 28, 05:04:43
Here's an idea:
Let's not complain about it by making threads , or posts about it. Everything you're talking about is not why things are falling apart. The forums are just not as active as they used to be. This game is less interesting now. What everyone needs to do is be more community friendly.

We need to invite more ponies to join the community. That will lead more talented ones to appear , and to help in making the game , and others to liven up the forums.

We need to be more in touch with each other. We need more group projects. We could all go out gaming online , making art , listening to music , or generally chatting just to get in touch with each other.

We can't keep blaming the team leaders for what's happening. Tell me who else would finish this project without them? Come on people don't SOME of you remember equestria online? I remember how all of us were friendly to the community. Tons of people were pushing others forward. In fact a lot of us from Equestria online were looked up to. We all had some spot special for us. We used to guide new people in , and welcome new additions.

So who's with me?
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: CyanideInsanity on 2013 May 28, 05:28:45
Oi, Blues-music! You're definitely on the right track, but several things need to be kept in mind though. You can't solve a rubik's cube by making only one side a solid color. Having a good, welcoming, and nice community is only part of the pie. If indeed there has been a lot of miscommunication and a general air of disorganization, confusion, and belittlement going on, a change is absolutely necessary for this project to come to fruition.

A machine can't work properly and efficiently if its parts are missing, broken, or disjointed. :nod: That's part of the reason some are talking about what happened so strongly. We all want to see this game become a reality, but there may be potential hazards to that which need to be taken care of immediately.

At the end of the day, once people put down their metaphoric torches and pitchforks, even if what happened was brought exponentially out of proportion, so long as people aren't pointing and shouting "WITCH!", this should hopefully invigorate the team to work harder or better!

Nobody but those on the team know exactly what has been transpiring. If its true, this should hopefully help them realize change is necessary; if false, this should hopefully deter them from this if they have ever thought about it.

Even with a great community, terrible work ethics could turn this game into the brony aliens colonial marines or the walking dead: survival instinct. You don't just let someone make a mistake, you tell them and help them learn from their mistakes!
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Tiger on 2013 May 28, 05:32:20
I'd agree to both of you, but how do we know if the team leaders are REALLY going to change? For all we know, they might not even care about the game anymore and just want fame and glory. (No offense intended)
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Blues-Music on 2013 May 28, 05:54:14
Okay I meant everything about the community. I said I didn't blame the team because I was afraid of getting banned , but after a recent chat I'm going to say what's on my mind.

I hate how things are going. We thought it was all happy , but after the recent info that has appeared I think things can't go on like this. I also hate the recent bans that have happened considering the info that was released was not sabotage. It would have been sabotage if it was fake , but recently we found out it wasn't. So why not just change? What's so good about this path anyway?

However even though I like the idea of this game , and I would hate if anything happened to it I want the community to survive either way. I only played the game for two days , and it was some fun , but i've been in this community for memorable years , and in that time the game was not released. I still had fun without it. Because these forums , IRC chats , Skype groups , and other stuff were really fun.

Ask yourself this. You spent your time here because you wanted the game to come out. Did you have fun? If you didn't then I don't know why you're here , but if you did then you should realize that we didn't play the game have fun. We were all one fun community.

I think the game is great. I would love for it to come out , but not this way. However if there is something that happened to the community It would be terrible. Apparently what has recently happened has made the community suffer from things such as leader hatred , and such.

I repeat I love this game , but I love the community even more. So that's why I decided to work on a project that will hopefully revive the community.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: CyanideInsanity on 2013 May 28, 06:12:33
Yup! That's the kind of thing we need; something to invigorate EVERYONE here. All of those on the team, and all of us in our little community. Fame and greed are not part of what the show tries to teach; instead kindness, acceptance, and forgiveness are!

Them may have royally messed up, but its not like change isn't part of human nature. Scoldings are necessary for many things, but hopefully its not too late for EVERYONE to turn around, acknowledge what happened, and work towards a brighter future. Mistakes were made; that's for sure, but torches and pitchforks are really only good for, well, their actual uses!

I'm pointing this at everyone, too. Every single individual involved in the incident, those who are in the aftermath, and those that who weren't even involved. Don't forget, but don't follow blindly either.

I'm hopeful that all loose ends can be fixed, but not blindly though. History is a great asset to learn from!
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Tiger on 2013 May 28, 06:18:54
And what if they don't? What if they continue to hold their heads high, denying the truth? They might not even care about the development of the game anymore. They might let the game collapse and leave it in ruins.

I'm not trying to badmouth the TLs, but we all know this is a possibility. We don't know how long they've been like this and we don't know if they can change.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Blues-Music on 2013 May 28, 06:22:18
Like I said I don't like what they did at all. I'm not saying I'm okay with it , or believing that change will happen. All I'm saying is that to me. That is not something I care about that much.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Ryo_D_Disk on 2013 May 28, 06:52:04
Ok  this shall be the final time I address this manner on the forums considering I have a hunch im not in the best books to begin with

Now then Ryo Rant time and first allow me to ask a simple question "Who Cares" Now don't take that the wrong way all I'm saying is these events don't truly affect us the forum goers, development teams are fine. This affected the Public relations team, not development, at most it may just turn a few heads away at best. The announcements will still be posted the same but now from a different voice.

As for the team again I can't comment because it doesn't affect me because I'm not on the team, if anything happens I'm pretty sure there mature enough to deal with it and if not then I'm sorry guys but you probably just affected motivation 
As for that so called "Leak" although I have not seen the footage I read the comments guess what it reveals NOTHING, you would have more fun watching some of the lets players on the pre alpha and watching the livestreams at least there you can have a fun time rather than reading some random persons comments about the what's there, and reveal what you could find out from the sources available here.
But regardless as far as im concerned forum life continues as normal, I daren't say this but I come here more for the company and the forumers rather than the game as much, true I'm looking forward to when the games playable but I'm more than aware its a long road
Do I trust the Team Leaders .... yes but I won't lie in saying I've lost a tad amount of respect for some. Will that change the way I act on the forums... Bwahaahah oh By Celestia's beard no, In every respect this forum is my home so come rain or shine Ill be here until the end

So lets all end this and carry life on as normal the time it took me to write this, could have easly been spent posting 5 off topic things or starting a roleplay or heck even recording a song so lets not dwell and lets Love and tolerate again
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Blues-Music on 2013 May 28, 07:14:06
Ryo the problem is that this is affecting the forums. Honestly I don't care what the team does even if it is wrong. What's wrong is that everyone is starting to hate how things are going on here. People are getting way less in touch than they were.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Tiger on 2013 May 28, 07:15:49
True at that. It's like a cloud of gloom hanging over all of us.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Ryo_D_Disk on 2013 May 28, 07:20:36
But thats my point it shouldnt affect us, Keep calm pony on my freinds the forums are safe the game is safe so end off were all freinds here so lets SMILE SMILE SMILE, we are the Forumers of LoE the ones who truly control this forums, our posts are what keep this place going, our games RP's Writting, randomness and all that fun stuff

True the team owns the forums but honestly unless we break a rule then we have nothing to be conserned about no topics are gone, our sugestions are still vailid and 90% of topics are made by us

So Lets Post ponys
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Blues-Music on 2013 May 28, 07:25:51
Well I don't control other people. I honestly don't care either way , but for others they seem to hate how control is being handled. I don't care if I agree , or if I don't I just don't want them to leave.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Rissian on 2013 May 28, 07:27:54
[ Invalid YouTube link ]

Just relax and listen to the gypsy tambourine don't let your spirit be broken.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Ryo_D_Disk on 2013 May 28, 07:29:59
Well this Dueling pony isnt going anywhere so Im going to follow Trege's example and lets listen to some music shall we
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Blues-Music on 2013 May 28, 07:31:04
I don't intend to leave either , but I don't intend to do nothing about it.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: CyanideInsanity on 2013 May 28, 07:37:52
I think we're all feeling the same. We want the community to continue to stand strong, kind, and happy. At the same time, thats how the team should feel when working on this project. Friendly togetherness, respect, and nothing really negative. I don't want to brood over this, but I don't wish any problems to stagnate the game's development either... :s

Anyway enough about this, I've got to see someone fail at fallout 3 and then get to bed.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Rissian on 2013 May 28, 07:42:46
I'm just gonna post one more song before I sleep. It kinda fits. x3

[ Invalid YouTube link ]

All we need to strive to be is part of the LoE community.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Nightmare702 on 2013 May 28, 17:33:31
InB4threadlock
Let's all just take a deep breathe in and out and listen 2 da music
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: The Wandering Magus on 2013 May 28, 18:18:57
Quote from: Nightmare702 on 2013 May 28, 17:33:31
InB4threadlock
word.

Thanks to AlDeezy for posting this thread, and for everyone who finally spoke their mind here.  I suppose I'll do the same; though I think the large majority of you already know my opinion, here's all my thoughts, collected, possibly changed slightly with the passage of time.

Stuff happened.  Disagreements happened.  That, at least, is indisputable.

Now for the "opinion" part, since the next part isn't quite indisputable enough to be called "fact".

People up high dropped the ball.  Hard.  And this isn't the first time either.  And as I'm sure you've all noticed, there has been secrecy, censorship and marking of individuals.  The new "awards" makes this all the more abundantly clear.  There is fear among team and forum members, there is distrust, and I don't have to tell you that lines have been drawn.  The question is where to go from here.

My advice?  Fix it.  Disclose everything, the whole, unedited truth for all to see, and let the world draw its own conclusion.  Bring back Dandy Lion and Swebow.  Cast a new vote that takes into account ALL team members for who should be the leaders in charge, not just by the opinion of a select few.  Stop sweeping the garbage under the rug and actually take it out and throw it in the dumpster.

And in a way I agree with Blues, there SHOULD be a greater emphasis on community.  A community of trust and goodwill.  A community where everypony knows everypony else.  A community where you don't have to censor yourself or your own opinions, and EVERYPONY can freely talk about their opinions without fear of being banned, censored or cut off or ridiculed.  A community of love and tolerance.

Can't we all just get along?  Can't we trust one another with truth?  Can't the lower team members speak their opinion about the higher team members without fear of being thrown out?  Can't higher team members tell the rest of the community about their opinions of the other higher team members without fear of being thrown out?  Can't members of the community relate their opinions about all the others without fear of being thrown out?

This used to be a place where everyone trusted everyone else.

This used to be a place where SweBow would come, give us sneak peeks about the newest thing being built, and the rest of us would celebrate.  A place where team members could speak their mind and not be banned.  A place where the mods were the good guys that you trusted to keep you safe, not keep you silent.

A place people could call home.

I still want this to be my home.  I have friends here, roleplays here, stories, characters, artwork, and more.  I've been here for over a year now, and I had hoped to be here forever.  Can't we please, please make this place be like what it once was?
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Teal Turken on 2013 May 28, 18:26:56
I don't have all my thoughts collected just yet so I'm not sharing any of my thoughts but I'm all for reviving the community.
I need to get on this site much more than I have in past months. I used to be on all the time, in the roleplay section, helping new RPers and playing with others.
And I don't realize how appreciated I really am. :c
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Bravo 658 on 2013 May 28, 18:34:48
Though I don't have a deep understanding of all that went on here, I know this much: there is, between members/leaders/I don't-even-know-who, secrecy.  One keeps secrets from their enemy so that they will fall.  Nopony's enemies here; this project HAS no enemies.  There's no need for secrets.
I think that may well be the core of the problem; secrecy.  The only other suggestion I have is respect.  Everypony, respect each other.  Ya know what that means?  No profanity, no discussion of private matters--you know what I mean here, don't try to twist my words--and, in general, follow the rules of this forum when interacting outside of the forum.  Family friendly rules are actually LIFE friendly.  It's a really healthy way to live, for your friendships and for your own souls.  Be kind to each other, everypony, and we've got no excuse not to smile all day!  I hope to see the "Dumb things that Annoy You" thread die of inactivity!
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Teal Turken on 2013 May 28, 18:41:09
um...I'm not sure if there's a thread about it so...what are these awards about?
I've got this "Tin foil hat" with a description that reads "The truth shall be revealed"
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: APonyFarce on 2013 May 28, 18:53:10
I can only speak for myself but as a team member this all seems super blown out of proportion. When this all started going down I read the arguments and came out of them just kind of thinking "so what?" The accusations didn't square with my experiences, the evidence seemed trumped-up and largely inconsequential, and I wasn't feeling any of the injustice I was apparently supposed to feel.

Now admittedly I'm not someone who's ever cared about team politics or whatever so I'm not "in the loop" as much as I could be but my point here is that you shouldn't take this to mean there's some kind of grand mutiny or slow descent into chaos or whatever else you might be inclined to expect and you shouldn't necessarily take what you hear at face value, either. I'm just one cog in the machine and the only team leader I've had an appreciable amount of interaction with is Bloomberg but I've never gotten the impression that he's only in it for the fame or doesn't care about the game, and I've never felt uncomfortable voicing my concerns nor have I ever felt like he was keeping secrets from me. I won't say that nobody has any concerns but the team leads have been making a point of being open and discussing things with anybody who has issues they want to talk about and for the most part things have been going on pretty much the way they always have. My advice is that you shouldn't be concerned about this "tension" because in all honesty from where I'm standing the whole thing seems like a manufactured controversy.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Sea Foam on 2013 May 28, 19:22:22
     It seems clear that the majority of people here know at least some of the details of recent events. Most people here have read the documents, chat logs, posts, etc. Most people have, at the very least, a basic overview of what happened.
     My only question is, why hasn't there been any kind of official statement? Why is all the information coming from these secret 'back alley' places?
     There is a clear 'tension' in the air regardless if some people think things have been blown out of proportion which, at this point, they may very well have been. It's upsetting to see this community fall into a pit of controversy and mistrust over something so seemingly immature.

     As far as I can see, nothing has been officially acknowledged and this whole 'awards' thing, though I may be entirely wrong, seems like a huge distraction from the issues. If this is the case, it's incredibly disappointing and almost insulting to consider that they think this whole situation can be nullified by some flashy badges. I hope I'm wrong in saying that they seem to be dancing around the problem and hoping that the whole thing just blows over, but I can't think of any other reason for this 'award' thing.

     I do not think that the game is collapsing and I do not think the team is either.  What I do think is that this whole mess has gone on much farther than it ever should have, all the while glorifying to some magnificent controversy. People are at an unrest and, to the best of my knowledge, not much is being done to fix anything.

     The problem is this consternation in the community and the lack of administrative attention to it. After this is cleared up, then progress can move forward to making the team more efficient, which it seems to need to be.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: ~Durpy on 2013 May 28, 19:28:45
 :]
Audio team is best team. We are in perfect harmony :3
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Ryo_D_Disk on 2013 May 28, 19:29:41
Quote from: ~Durpy on 2013 May 28, 19:28:45
:]
Audio team is best team. We are in perfect harmony :3


Same rule for the Audio ponys in the audio thread
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Teal Turken on 2013 May 28, 19:34:34
I feel like I'm not going to get enough time to relax and share my collected thoughts before everyone has "moved on" from this incident.
It'll just look like me dwelling on a dead subject. Don't expect to hear my thoughts...

EDIT
Spoiler: My only collected thoughts as of 5/28/13, Tuesday • show
I feel like crying, I HAVE been crying.
I never cared too much for the game itself, but rather I cared that a large group of people gathered together and decided to freely put their time and efforts into producing a product that under almost all other circumstances only paid people would work on together. There was no thought of reward, no money or fame to be gained.
In the previous year, there was one who was part of the team seeking fame, Raindrop. Raindrop wanted all credit for everyone's work, to be recognized for making the game. The other members were upset by this and left him. While everyone shunned him, we missed the fact that others in the team wanted credit, wanted fame.
Fame is such a thing that leads to devious actions and lies, secrecy and even betrayal. I wanted to believe that people, not bronies, could all get together and work towards a project without a single thought of reward.
The immense betrayal of trust, the lies and the secrecy has nearly that belief. In my life I've had more and more reason to distrust those in positions of power and now...I have no faith or trust for them. These team leaders and members were supposed to be friends, trusting and honest of each other. If these people cannot overcome greed then what of MY friends?
I won't ever share my personal experiences with trust...but at this rate, I won't trust a soul on this planet other than myself with anything in the next 5 years.

That's all I have today. I don't know when I'll feel fine enough to return to activity...
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: The Wandering Magus on 2013 May 28, 20:20:16
Quote from: Teal Turken on 2013 May 28, 19:34:34
I feel like I'm not going to get enough time to relax and share my collected thoughts before everyone has "moved on" from this incident.
It'll just look like me dwelling on a dead subject. Don't expect to hear my thoughts...
please do share.  this thread is for everyone to share their opinion, and opinions are for sharing.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Teal Turken on 2013 May 28, 20:25:20
Quote from: The Wandering Magus on 2013 May 28, 20:20:16
Quote from: Teal Turken on 2013 May 28, 19:34:34
I feel like I'm not going to get enough time to relax and share my collected thoughts before everyone has "moved on" from this incident.
It'll just look like me dwelling on a dead subject. Don't expect to hear my thoughts...
please do share.  this thread is for everyone to share their opinion, and opinions are for sharing.

Well...I edited my thoughts into my last post. Here's a repost in case you miss it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spoiler: My only collected thoughts as of 5/28/13, Tuesday • show
I feel like crying, I HAVE been crying.
I never cared too much for the game itself, but rather I cared that a large group of people gathered together and decided to freely put their time and efforts into producing a product that under almost all other circumstances only paid people would work on together. There was no thought of reward, no money or fame to be gained.
In the previous year, there was one who was part of the team seeking fame, Raindrop. Raindrop wanted all credit for everyone's work, to be recognized for making the game. The other members were upset by this and left him. While everyone shunned him, we missed the fact that others in the team wanted credit, wanted fame.
Fame is such a thing that leads to devious actions and lies, secrecy and even betrayal. I wanted to believe that people, not bronies, could all get together and work towards a project without a single thought of reward.
The immense betrayal of trust, the lies and the secrecy has nearly that belief. In my life I've had more and more reason to distrust those in positions of power and now...I have no faith or trust for them. These team leaders and members were supposed to be friends, trusting and honest of each other. If these people cannot overcome greed then what of MY friends?
I won't ever share my personal experiences with trust...but at this rate, I won't trust a soul on this planet other than myself with anything in the next 5 years.

That's all I have today. I don't know when I'll feel fine enough to return to activity...
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: APonyFarce on 2013 May 28, 21:12:59
Look, I've been on the team for well over a year now, maybe even two, and while I only work directly with one of the team leaders I've spent enough time around them to know that they don't do what they do because they're looking for fame. If their only goal was to get famous, they certainly wouldn't be giving their time and effort to a project that by its very nature will never get any recognition from anybody outside of this one little internet subculture of ours. Every decision they make they make because they think it'll be good for the game or at least just a cool thing and/or a fun way to engage with the fans, and the idea that they're trying to mark their territory and take control of everybody's work in the name of glory is a severe mischaracterization.

If you're despairing because this is proof that greed ruins friendships, please don't, because that's not what's going on here at all. I don't always agree with the team leaders, as any of the other writers will tell you, but speaking for myself in my capacity as one member of the team I don't feel that anybody has betrayed my trust and all this talk of lies and secrecy just doesn't reflect what's going on behind the scenes at all.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Teal Turken on 2013 May 28, 21:21:08
I'm in a very weak state of mind at the moment and I'm also not part of the team so I can't say that you're just blind to the evidence around you.
However I can say that you've probably just not been personally exposed to any of this abuse that has caused many other members, at least 9 from what I've read, to quit the team. They didn't all leave because they had other interests, they left because something was bothering them enough to make them leave. Some like Swebow have also just been kicked off the team. I also find it very odd you think bronies are a "little internet subculture", I really do.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: McSleuthburger on 2013 May 28, 22:00:45
Please realize that when you have a large number of people working on the game, not everyone is going to get along with everyone else. Problems are bound to happen when you work for longer periods of time. Different people will react in different ways. For some, they can just blurt out their problem and things can be taken care of quickly, but for others it can be a bunch of little things building up over time and then be released all in one burst.
Team leaders are not maniacal tyrants looking for fame and fortune, they are normal people that want to see this game finished and succeed as much as most of you guys do.
Yes there have been a number of members that have left recently but most of them are for various reasons (not one specific event or thing). Also think about the number of people here talking to you guys trying to show that not everything is as it says in a document or such. for every person saying something bad there are two people trying to clear up the situation.


When problems happen like this, it only makes the people who are still working on the game to work even harder to have a good finished product for everyone. I havent been moderating the forums for over a year now for nothing, I believe in this game and the happiness it can bring to people
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Albino on 2013 May 29, 17:03:01
Wait, SweBow left?  D:

Man, we've fallen far from Love and Tolerate. Read the forum rules. far. I remember back when I had just started watching ponies, I could talk about anything, any opinion I had, and no one would judge or insult me. But now I might as well be talking about my problems to any other forum out there. The brony fandom attracted me because they were NICE -- not fake nice, not nice to only some people, but nice to everyone. Nowadays, they're just like any other fandom out there. The magic left. Now I'm not saying I lost faith in the community, far from it. I just believe we should all try to work harder to bring this community back to its roots, and stop shouting people down who try to speak up.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Spencer the Pegasus Guard on 2013 May 29, 17:18:37
Quote from: Albino on 2013 May 29, 17:03:01
Wait, SweBow left?  D:

Man, we've fallen far from Love and Tolerate. I AM A BAD PONY far. I remember back when I had just started watching ponies, I could talk about anything, any opinion I had, and no one would judge or insult me. But now I might as well be talking about my problems to any other forum out there. The brony fandom attracted me because they were NICE -- not fake nice, not nice to only some people, but nice to everyone. Nowadays, they're just like any other fandom out there. The magic left. Now I'm not saying I lost faith in the community, far from it. I just believe we should all try to work harder to bring this community back to its roots, and stop shouting people down who try to speak up.

Although I don't believe ALL of the fandom is this way, I do agree with some points. Nowadays we have people who give "legit" facts to why they are right. Take the best pony thing for example. I used to say Fluttershy is best pony to a lot of people and we would JOKINGLY have a disagreement. Now that is rare. I say that to the wrong guy and he'll jump all over me with "facts" of why his is better. But that's another story. LoE is something that I planned to make an account and abandon until the game gets released but I stayed for how awesome people are. I'm still planning on staying until the game gets released or dissolves. For better or for worse.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Teal Turken on 2013 May 29, 22:06:51
EDIT
Spoiler: My only collected thoughts as of 5/28/13, Tuesday • show
I feel like crying, I HAVE been crying.
I never cared too much for the game itself, but rather I cared that a large group of people gathered together and decided to freely put their time and efforts into producing a product that under almost all other circumstances only paid people would work on together. There was no thought of reward, no money or fame to be gained.
In the previous year, there was one who was part of the team seeking fame, Raindrop. Raindrop wanted all credit for everyone's work, to be recognized for making the game. The other members were upset by this and left him. While everyone shunned him, we missed the fact that others in the team wanted credit, wanted fame.
Fame is such a thing that leads to devious actions and lies, secrecy and even betrayal. I wanted to believe that people, not bronies, could all get together and work towards a project without a single thought of reward.
The immense betrayal of trust, the lies and the secrecy has nearly that belief. In my life I've had more and more reason to distrust those in positions of power and now...I have no faith or trust for them. These team leaders and members were supposed to be friends, trusting and honest of each other. If these people cannot overcome greed then what of MY friends?
I won't ever share my personal experiences with trust...but at this rate, I won't trust a soul on this planet other than myself with anything in the next 5 years.

That's all I have today. I don't know when I'll feel fine enough to return to activity...
[/quote]

I want to take this time right now to say that most of my "collected thoughts" in this spoiler were just my emotions talking. Don't get me wrong, I still think this whole incident is terrible, but not as terrible as I put it here. Rereading this, I can picture a depressive, attention seeking whiny person writing this. I withdraw my writing within the spoiler, but I don't feel it's necessary for me to write any actual thoughts down as they have all already been stated by many others, especially Magus. All I'd be doing is restating everything that already has been said.
My thoughts sum up to:
"This is an absolute tragic reveal of the inside of LoE and any persons involved with the bullying of other members should feel ashamed of themselves."
With confidence that I righted my wrongs and that others can too, LoE get your act together and cease the abuse of thy friends!
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: AlDeezy on 2013 May 29, 23:02:50
Wow, went camping for an itty bit and I come back to 4 pages! I'm very happy this thread wasn't lost in the never ending pile of threads. Even some team members jumped on the bandwagon? Shweet  :3.

(post-preview: "WOAH WALL OF TEXT SPOILERS NEEDED EVERYWHERE)
Spoiler: show

Quote from: Sea Foam on 2013 May 28, 19:22:22
     My only question is, why hasn't there been any kind of official statement? Why is all the information coming from these secret 'back alley' places?


You know, initially when I was learning about this whole shpeel I was wondering the same thing. Why hasn't there been a front and center statement reading "WE HAVE DONE WRONG, HERE IT OUR WRONGDOINGS." ?  I suppose that it is because it was an insider opinion that happened to be shared by other team members. It's a deal, but looking back at it, if it is just limited to a select few people, then it's not worth posting a team wide apology. I just hope that this resolves and production of this game continues as planned.

Quote from: Tekner on 2013 May 28, 00:07:12
I would like to publicly make myself heard that two team leads called me a potato and a doody head, respectively. My feelings were so hurt that I forgot how to cry DD:


I... Resent that statement (And the many others like this lurking around the forums done by team members). Way to continuously attack your community and everyone hurt by the  recent events. Really professional. [/sarcasm] This is the comment that made me want to boycott this game entirely, and I'm sure others can empathize.

Quote from: APonyFarce on 2013 May 28, 18:53:10
I can only speak for myself but as a team member this all seems super blown out of proportion. When this all started going down I read the arguments and came out of them just kind of thinking "so what?" The accusations didn't square with my experiences, the evidence seemed trumped-up and largely inconsequential, and I wasn't feeling any of the injustice I was apparently supposed to feel.


THAAAAAAAANK YOOOOOOOOOU!
THANK YOU for setting some of the record straight instead of beating around the bush or obnoxiously disregarding it. This all seemed very big and kept under wraps but you. YOU. HAVE SHOWN ME. THE WAY. TO THINK. ABOUT THIS. NOW.
Something I completely missed to touch base on in my mind was proportion. Media and word of mouth can up the ante on anything, sometimes to dangerous levels.
But... because you say you weren't directly involved with any of this, you can only give us a ballpark as to the scope, with error bars far to the left and right. Maybe it really was just a few isolated incidences, who knows?!

At the end of the day, we have realize that game dev has fun, but is not meant to be fun. It's a job, and like any other job, must be taken with some level of professionalism. That professionalism was broken, and people have every right to be angry about it! It doesn't matter if you are really young or a "grizzled veteran of life," there is a certain expectation that above all else, if you're tied to this project then you must follow some guidelines and stay within boundaries. I just hope everyone has fun with the project, but don't beak their obligations nor respect to eachother.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: KillerJH2 on 2013 May 30, 00:28:46
Quote from: Albino on 2013 May 27, 20:41:34
So does this give me free reign to post ponies? I:

[IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/9popyv.png[/img]

Cuz I'ma post ponies.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NYIuKtrphFA/TlBDbNJCYMI/AAAAAAAAKx8/n7-N8BU_u1Q/s1600/47719+-+artist+pony-spiz+cute+pinkie_pie+sweater.png)


You do realize that you've just committed the very heinous crime of having a picture that adorable, and not telling me directly of its existence.
I mean, it doesn't seem that bad; but if I would have missed it, it would've ranked up there with crimes such as not sharing your pringles, or even taking a huge bite of my favourite sandwich when I had only permitted you a small taste.

I am committing this file to my hard-drive along with a stern warning that you shouldn't post d'awwwh of this magnitude without fair warning. 
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Albino on 2013 May 30, 02:06:58
Quote from: KillerJH2 on 2013 May 30, 00:28:46

You do realize that you've just committed the very heinous crime of having a picture that adorable, and not telling me directly of its existence.
I mean, it doesn't seem that bad; but if I would have missed it, it would've ranked up there with crimes such as not sharing your pringles, or even taking a huge bite of my favourite sandwich when I had only permitted you a small taste.

I am committing this file to my hard-drive along with a stern warning that you shouldn't post d'awwwh of this magnitude without fair warning.


But I have a license to carry diabetes as long as it's not concealed! :<
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Tiger on 2013 May 30, 04:10:20
So, uh, back to topic.

"Why hasn't there been an official statement?"

It might be Anyasmash and the others trying to deny ever behaving like that. Trying to subtly say that SweBow is lying.
Well, that's not working. We all know the truth and their titles are tarnished now, like Deez said. So they decided to make the Awards thing to distract everyone from the issue, as Sea Foam has stated. But we have seen right through it, and now they don't know what else to do.

Let me tell you what to do.

OWN UP.

Quote from: Aldeezy, at the start of this threadWear your mistakes with pride.

We all know your secrets now, the abuses, the offensive jokes. Don't try to hide them anymore, we can see right through you.
Stop trying to be a RainDrop. If you kicked him out because he wanted fame above all else, you might as well kick yourselves out. Stop being the abusers that you are and become the nice people we had pictured you all to be.
Fix the situation. Fix the game. Fix YOURSELVES!
Make the people in the team your friends, not your nerds to bully! Live and work in peace and harmony! Take a new path of FRIENDSHIP, not HATRED! It's not called "My Little Pony - Hatred is Magic"!

Otherwise, the game and the community shall crumble apart.
Quote from: AldeezyAnother failed game project.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: HaponyHanzo on 2013 May 30, 05:32:29
Hi,as you may know i am a member of the team for some months now and i just want to say that i am very happy to be a part of the LoE Team. All the teamleaders i worked with are nice people and i don't feel any tension at all.
Actually we are friends at the team and i don't feel like i am being bullied by the "evil" teamleaders.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: aussie114 on 2013 May 30, 06:19:53
1+ to what Hapony said, my 4 months on the team has been a fun and positive experience and I have found that the team leads and my fellow team members have always been friendly and helpful.

Less drama, more dawwwwonies.
(http://f0.bcbits.com/z/10/88/108841958-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Tiger on 2013 May 30, 06:35:29
May I make a note that your team leader, Savana, isn't a team leader in question in this whole issue?
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Tekner on 2013 May 30, 07:12:28
Spoiler: My apologies to AlDeezy • show
[quote author=AlDeezy link=topic=7297.msg610828#msg610828 date=1369882970]
[quote author=Tekner link=topic=7297.msg609056#msg609056 date=1369714032]
I would like to publicly make myself heard that two team leads called me a potato and a doody head, respectively. My feelings were so hurt that I forgot how to cry DD:
[/quote]

I... Resent that statement (And the many others like this lurking around the forums done by team members). Way to continuously attack your community and everyone hurt by the  recent events. Really professional. [/sarcasm] This is the comment that made me want to boycott this game entirely, and I'm sure others can empathize.
[/quote]I sincerely apologize that my comment was taken that way. The reason I made that comment is because, while there certainly were very serious things going on, how apparently pervasive they were to the project itself (and the rest of the team) seems to be over-exaggerated in most cases and is actually very negligible in reality. My intent was to lighten the air surrounding the apparent treatment of "regular" team members by the team leads. I have never experienced (directed towards me or anyone else on the team) any kind of abuse or insult that wasn't a friendly prod or that couldn't be talked through by anyone, not just leads. Obviously my intent was not clear and I'm very sorry for the miscommunication.

@Everyone Else: Please, if anything else I've said offended any of you, call me on it, as AlDeezy did. I have no shame in and will accept responsibility for my behavior.


Spoiler: Why hasn't there been an official statement? • show
[quote author=Tiger link=topic=7297.msg611083#msg611083 date=1369901420]
Spoiler: show


It might be Anyasmash and the others trying to deny ever behaving like that. Trying to subtly say that SweBow is lying.
Well, that's not working. We all know the truth and their titles are tarnished now, like Deez said. So they decided to make the Awards thing to distract everyone from the issue, as Sea Foam has stated. But we have seen right through it, and now they don't know what else to do.

[/quote]First off, no one is denying that anything happened. If any of us thought for one second that we could wish it all away and everyone would forget, I'd be seriously worried about that person's sense of reality and morality. None of us are that ignorant or stupid, that much I give you my word. I hate the social stigma that if you can't see anything being done, nothing actually is. Just because you don't see anything, that doesn't mean we've forgotten or are trying to ignore what happened.

I, personally, want more than anything to let the truth be known. And I mean the whole truth and nothing but the truth, not one-sided propaganda that's been heavily filtered and commented to make my side seem appealing. By the way, SweBow did lie, exaggerate, and take things way out of context to make his "arguments" sound more valid. For example, no one suggested any kind of "sleeping" between members to have happened. To this day, no one is sure where he got that from. Maybe it was a metaphor he used and someone took it too seriously. No one has a clue and we won't begin to unfairly put words in his mouth.

Another thing most of you don't realize is that as PR lead, he had access to many of our PR tools, such as Livestream. SweBow intentionally locked down at least one of our Livestream accounts and used it to leak game content. He purposely recorded video footage on May 16th (two weeks ago, long before we knew he'd quit on us or any of this other drama), and made it public ten days later after all the drama unfolded. He premeditated a sabotage attempt against LoE, the very project he'd been fostering for more than two years now. And, to top it all off, he bragged about it in a snide comment that this was to spite us. If you don't believe me, those of you with a link to his document can scroll to the bottom of it and check for yourselves.

Now, I'm sure I sound like, to some of you, someone with a political agenda and I'm trying to gain favor so that "my side wins." I'll admit that I am obviously biased towards keeping LoE alive, and SweBow appears to be in opposition to that sentiment (despite his claims that he isn't.) I refuse to let that bias keep me from analyzing the facts to figure out what truly happened, however, as I've laid out here. To follow up, SweBow locking down our Livestream accounts plays a part in why we're so slow to make any kind of public announcement or event in general.

Keep in mind that I am a generally trusting and forgiving person. Many members of the forum know this about me, and I am very fortunate to be able to call them friends. That being said, I was one of the last people to lose faith in SweBow. I try to understand peoples' perspectives before I assign any kind of blame or judgement. I understood that he was upset, especially about the inexcusably immature behavior of some team leads. It wasn't until I learned that he premeditated these sabotage videos that I realized I couldn't trust him any more. Remember that I was once just a "regular" member of these forums like any of you. I know what it was like to see all the amazing things SweBow had said and done. He truly was "The man. The voice. The legend." in our eyes. There comes a time when you need to come to your senses and realize that no one is perfect, and you have to let some people go for your own good... It was hard, but I had cross that road too. I hope you guys can find it in yourselves to at least consider what I just said.

As per my nature to try to resolve things as peacefully and mutually as possible, I messaged SweBow the day after he released his videos to ask him to please remove them for everyone's sake. His response was rather unsettling.
Spoiler: What I said and SweBow's response. NOTE: THERE IS CUSSING IN THE FOLLOWING IMAGE • show
(http://i.imgur.com/ttOBLZo.png)

Do note that because I am a generally trusting person, I can get very vindictive when I am backstabbed. I do my best to redirect those feelings into more cohesive discussion than actually act out any sort of revenge, however. I ended up venting to some friends about how I felt, and sent SweBow that message, which is why I cussed a bit. I was obviously very hurt.


Spoiler: OWN UP. • show

[quote author=Tiger link=topic=7297.msg611083#msg611083 date=1369901420]
Spoiler: show


Quote from: Aldeezy, at the start of this threadWear your mistakes with pride.

We all know your secrets now, the abuses, the offensive jokes. Don't try to hide them anymore, we can see right through you.
Stop trying to be a RainDrop. If you kicked him out because he wanted fame above all else, you might as well kick yourselves out. Stop being the abusers that you are and become the nice people we had pictured you all to be.
Fix the situation. Fix the game. Fix YOURSELVES!
Make the people in the team your friends, not your nerds to bully! Live and work in peace and harmony! Take a new path of FRIENDSHIP, not HATRED! It's not called "My Little Pony - Hatred is Magic"!

Otherwise, the game and the community shall crumble apart.
Quote from: AldeezyAnother failed game project.

[/quote]I don't have any clue where any of that came from :o
Let's clear up a few points, shall we?
[list type=decimal]
[li]"Don't try to hide them [secrets] anymore, we can see right through you."
We have absolutely nothing to hide from you guys. If you think not detailing every issue that comes up in our personal lives is hiding things from you guys, then I'm sorry, but you need a reality-check. We are human beings just like all of you. We're entitled to our privacy. To follow up that point, if you think that the majority of the complaints in the docs you read aren't personal issues, and that they affect the entire team, again, you may need a reality-check. I apologize for being blunt, but that is the truth of it all: You all don't need to know about every single little problem that comes up in our chats. Step back from all the drama and ask yourselves if you really need to know these things or if your reactions are mostly from shock and possibly misplaced distrust in us (I'm not saying that the distrust isn't justified or understandable.)[/li]
[li]Regardless of if we need to know that these things happened, they still happened and you can't deny that!
No one is trying to act like it never happened. No one is trying to say that it's no big deal and we can all ignore it. All I'm trying to point out is that we are a group of people joined together to make a game. Just because we're in a group, doesn't mean that we'll always agree. It doesn't mean that everyone will stay on the team until it's finished. And it definitely doesn't mean that we're all going to be perfect people who make no wrong-doings against others. What it means is that we should do our best to be a team in spite of those facts! We should be able to move on and through each others' issues. What happens when we can't do that, is exactly what you all saw come out in the form of unsubstantiated, personal vindications against certain people. Obviously, that means some more fine-tuning needs to be done within the team. We're not ignoring that fact and we're actively exploring ideas to attempt to fix that in the future, such as a possible HR (Human Resources) department that team members can talk to if they don't trust other members or team leaders.[/li]
[li]Stop being abusers.
I don't know of any abuse that's gone on in the team. I've been here a year and, I think, that's plenty of time to notice something if it's happened. To be clear, I don't consider wrongly-interpretted jokes to be abuse if they were swiftly repented for. SweBow's documents did show some jokes that were taken the wrong way, and I in no way condone the behavior at all, but everyone involved (and I thank SweBow for censoring people's names) has no hard feelings about it at all. I know this because I personally asked SweBow for the names of the people involved and asked those people directly what their residual feelings are about it all. They said, and I'm paraphrasing of course, that they were freaked out, didn't appreciate or understand the joke, but were apologized to and have since even forgotten about it because of how insignificant it is now. That's not to say that there couldn't possbly have been cases of "abuse" that have gone under the radar, and that's something we realize that we must address. As I said above, we are currently discussing ways to fix that.[/li]
[li]Stop being fame-seekers.
SweBow made an argument that Anya, Bloomberg, and Perry are fame-seekers who belittle their members and take all the credit. This is the one argument out of everything he said that I don't understand at all. It makes absolutely no sense, and it shouldn't. He didn't even provide "proof" for this one, yet he did for pretty much everything else he said. All he did was make unsubstantiated assertions.
Here are a number of reasons why all of his accusations of them being fame-seekers are ridiculous:
[list type=decimal]
[li]The only posts that Perry ever makes on the forums are about final decisions about forum conduct or, more often than not, sticky posts about the forum rules. If Perry wanted fame, wouldn't he post more? Wouldn't he somehow try to steal McSleuthburger's responses and make them his own (because he honestly is the most active moderator thus far.) I see no evidence of any of that and I am completely dumbfounded how anyone could assert that Perry strives for the limelight. To follow that up, I'm sure many of you remember Canterlot Gardens 2012. It was an absolutely amazing convention that many of you guys attended, as well as myself. What many of you may not know is that Perry was the co-founder/owner of Canterlot Gardens. He funded some of it with his own money, handled planning, financials, security, among other things. While I was at the con, all I saw him doing was running around (literally) with a walkie-talkie in hand, ensuring that everything went smoothly. The only time he got any kind of limelight was when he acted as a temporary bodyguard for some celebrities when things got out of control, or when he introduced some panelists. The very fact that this is news to many of you is proof enough that he isn't a fame-seeker. He's an extremely hard-working man, whom SweBow should feel ashamed for attempting to defame in such a childish, pedantic manner.[/li]
[li]The same defense for Anya and Bloomberg applies, as well. I haven't seen them once attempt to steal their team's work. We have Trello boards and everyone's work is in their name. No one tries to take credit for anyone else's work. In addition, as SweBow said, they (Anya and Bloomberg) pitched the idea for Ellowee, our new mascot. Do you guys know why they wanted to introduce a mascot? I guarantee that the majority of you don't. It was because of the very accusation that some members were trying to take the spotlight. We wanted to prevent that from ever happening. Ellowee is a tool for our PR department to use so that no single member can take the spotlight, as SweBow did (and I probably do with these really long, arduous response posts :I.) If Anya and Bloomberg wanted spotlight, they wouldn't actively take steps to ensure that no one can attain spotlight, themselves included.[/li]
[/list][/li]
[li]Be friends with everyone on your team and stop censoring them.
Again, as far as I can tell, everyone gets along fine for the most part; as much as any team should, at least. I haven't once been censored or told not to post or say anything regarding what's been going on. Here's a screenshot of skype just after I said that I'm responding to this thread:
(http://i.imgur.com/iQAmp7v.png)
As you can see, even Anya has no issue with what I, or anyone else, is posting. She knows full well that I'm not withholding non-personal information, and if she didn't somehow, she will after she reads this post. Obviously, I'm not worried in the slightest because I trust her and my team.[/li]
[li]Why aren't you guys saying anything or making an official statement?
As far as I go, I've been actively discussing and disclosing as much as I know to people on Skype, and I'm sure that those people whom I've talked with would tell you that I've been doing my best to keep them informed. Within the team, I've pushed numerous times for an official announcement in response to what happened. The biggest issue with that is that it really all just boils down to personal issues people had with the team and making a public announcement would just make the situation worse by freaking out more people than is necessary.

Already, a bunch of you have shared how much shock you went through to find all this stuff going around when you came back from some form of a break or vacation. Heck, that's the premise of this entire thread! We'd like to not put everyone else through that if we can help it. The fact is that, frankly, we're stuck between a rock and a hard place, as the saying goes. Many of you may know that metaphor from The Simpsons Movie. For those of you who did see it, remember that scene where Homer is stuck on the wrecking ball and is being swung between a giant rock and a hotel with the sign "A Hard Place"? That's what I'm talking about, and that's exactly how a lot of us feel. We either say nothing and appear as though we're hiding/ignoring what happened, or we respond and freak everyone out for no good reason.
[/li]
[li]Conclusion
The team isn't falling apart, no one's been fighting about what happened, no one's been censored, the team leads have been as complient as they possibly can with any and all team members who had concerns, and we've all since moved on. Truth is, most every time I mention making any kind of announcement about this now, I just get reminded that it is, truthfully, old news. To many of you, it isn't. That much is very clear to me. I guess right now, the team is just trying to reconcile how to handle that you guys aren't over what isn't a big deal to the rest of us. It's not an easy situation for any of us to be in.[/li]
[/list]


Quote from: Tiger on 2013 May 30, 06:35:29
May I make a note that your team leader, Savana, isn't a team leader in question in this whole issue?
May I ask what exactly that has to do with anything? Most of the points raised by people are that the whole team is being accused of some form of conspiracy or hiding what happened. All team leads share responsibility in the actions of the team and each other. Savana would not refute that.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
So basically Swebow "Sabotages" something he worked on for years for revenge? I'm not buying it. With all due respect I don't believe it. (I would like to point out the you're , and your in this are to the team , and not only you Tekner.)

It would harm him more than anyone else. He was here since EO times , and I know the same can be said to other team members , but still the idea that he would try to sabotage something he took part in because of how immature his team was acting makes no sense whatsoever.

Also still when you tried to explain why no official statement was said you completely stray away from the idea , and constantly try to make Swebow look like the bad guy. So still I ask the same question Tiger asks. Why has there not been an official statement?

Also you keep saying that just because we don't see something happening doesn't mean something isn't happening. Well then can I please see an example of what is happening? Then later you say "We aren't hiding anything" , and "We are entitled to our own privacy." In the same sentence. I don't really have to point out what's wrong.

Also we aren't asking any personal questions about anyone's life. We were asking about this game that is announced publicly , and why there hasn't been a single word on recent info that has been shown. A normal company would have said something about what their making , and all of that , but here we have complete silence , and the use of "Privacy for a public matter." as an excuse.

So first off you're saying you don't have to fix it because humans must obtain flaws , but then you say you're trying to fix it? I don't get it at all. Basically everything said so far was that you were sorry you allowed your flaws to be seen , and you never actually cared for them , and are in fact continuing them , but when you see that the others hate that idea 5 seconds later , and you all have been working very hard to improve?

We don't think the way you acted was the abuse. The way you did things such as get rid of Swebow , and constantly try to silence whatever doesn't agree with you was the abuse.

We aren't talking about forum posts. We're talking about the game The whole argument against them being fame-seekers is that they don't try to rip off anyone elses posts. Considering I find that highly impossible. If someone wanted to be famous he wouldn't (Even though I have no idea how he/she would) try to steal someones post on the forums. It's just forums that aren't even that popular. What they are doing has to do with the game , and NOT the forums.

Okay let me get this straight. You cant talk about something public because it's private? End of paragraph.

So the recent Swebow leaving has nothing to do with the team failing? Yeah because if it was him that chose to leave , and as a normal desire to stop working he would definitely try to ruin something he helped create.


Okay here is something that isn't a response to your post: What about the public relations? What's going to happen to it. If the team isn't hiding anything , or falling apart then a simple explanation will show us everything is fine , and dandy

Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Tiger on 2013 May 30, 08:51:20
Blues speaks the truth. SweBow's been around for a very, very long time. Even if he did decide to leave on his own, I doubt he would try and sabotage LOE as he wouldn't have had a reason to. But here he tells us of all this, which must be the truth.

As Blues says, if there's nothing to hide then get to the point. The production of LOE isn't in your own privacy, it's for the public, so show us. Show us what's happening.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Night Pony on 2013 May 30, 09:13:12
Also doesn't explain the fact why Dandy was banned for expressing her opinion and making suggestions. It also makes me wonder when there was suspicion that Swebow was giving her special treatment nopony bothered to even tell her much less bring her into the discussion.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 10:12:43
I'd also like to point out how many team members are straying away from this topic. We are constantly told they aren't straying away from anything , but the second people start talking about this they keep posting unrelated pictures , and videos thinking that would change the topic. So why not just stop running away , and come say something? I promise we won't bite.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Tekner on 2013 May 30, 10:45:03
Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
So basically Swebow "Sabotages" something he worked on for years for revenge? I'm not buying it. With all due respect I don't believe it. (I would like to point out the you're , and your in this are to the team , and not only you Tekner.)

It would harm him more than anyone else. He was here since EO times , and I know the same can be said to other team members , but still the idea that he would try to sabotage something he took part in because of how immature his team was acting makes no sense whatsoever.
As I said a couple times, I was one of the last people to lose faith in him. Among my reasons were that, as you said, it makes no sense for him to sabotage something he worked on for years. That is exactly why I explicitly made it clear that that's what he did. Here is a quote from his May 26th update:
QuoteSo, apparently I got blamed now for releasing sensitive information? No, I release one screenshot, to Dandy, where her post got switched because of my agreement to some of her points!
...
After when I heard I was getting kicked, I started to post more pics for Skype chats. Not really sensitive information at all!

So... I didn't want to release this, but hell. If they wanted sensitive information release; here you go

Canterlot, that has been made so far... and it's been a year... (notice the new shader and pony models? That is kind of cool isn't it? But Ponyville haven't really been updated at all. Everfree haven't been touched)

He outright said that he's releasing sensitive information simply because he doesn't agree with that what he leaked before was sensitive information. He then begins to detail new features that we were saving for the cons. I don't know what your definition of sabotage is, but that clearly fits mine, among his other misdeeds that he admits to doing. Now, I don't believe he's made it his mission to shut down LoE. That's not at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that of the poor decisions he's made regarding sensitive information, almost all of them can be classified as sabotage, and he knows this. I'm speaking more of what that says about his character, than his intent.

Thing is, many of you have an emotional attachment to SweBow that will take time to ease out of. I understand that and am only trying to give you both sides of the argument so that you may form your own opinion of what happened, but regardless of what opinion that turns out to be, we're moving forward with the game.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
Also still when you tried to explain why no official statement was said you completely stray away from the idea , and constantly try to make Swebow look like the bad guy. So still I ask the same question Tiger asks. Why has there not been an official statement?
The reason it feels like I keep trying to make SweBow "the bad guy" is because everything that's happened thus far has its roots in him. If he hadn't gossiped about something that was brought up in a serious manner and was dismissed as a concern almost as soon as it was brought up, Dandy wouldn't have quit the team. If he didn't leak the private conversations and material, he wouldn't have gotten in trouble and would still be on the team. It all goes back to him because he abused his admin privileges and our trust in him. Does that make him a "bad guy"? I won't say. That's up to you to decide.

As to why there's no official statement yet... I clearly explained why a couple of times, from a couple of different angles. If you didn't see my explanations, then you should reread my post. The jyst of it was because SweBow, being the old PR lead, won't give us some of our necessary PR tools back and that there are consequences to making a public statement about all of this.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
Also you keep saying that just because we don't see something happening doesn't mean something isn't happening. Well then can I please see an example of what is happening? Then later you say "We aren't hiding anything" , and "We are entitled to our own privacy." In the same sentence. I don't really have to point out what's wrong.
The only examples I could give are our skype discussions about PR, future events, if/how we're going to make a public announcement, etc. I need consent from everyone in those conversations before I can show them to you. I suppose the only other proof I can show, however small, is the screenshot I posted above where Anya is giving Hapony and I her support in posting what we feel we need to and that Hapony is among the many team members who got over all this drama already.

Actually, there isn't anything wrong with that statement. "We aren't hiding anything" was a response to the accusation that we're picking sides and purposely hiding evidence of more wrongdoings on our part solely to cover it up. "We are entitled to our own privacy." has to do with the fact that all of the gossip going around about who said what and how we were affected by it has nothing to do with you guys and shouldn't be made public. They were put together like that to mean this, put more succinctly: "Our personal conversations were inappropriately made public. You guys didn't need to know about them in the first place because they aren't any of your concern, and no we're not just saying that because we have anything to cover up." Obviously there has to be a sense of trust in the first place in order for you to believe any of that. This is one of the areas I'm not going to go out of my way to prove because common sense dictates that this is the case anyway, and it doesn't matter if you trust me about that. You can choose to believe us or not. It doesn't change that we're still working on LoE without SweBow and those who chose to leave us. That was their decision and we're not letting it affect us beyond that.


Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
Also we aren't asking any personal questions about anyone's life. We were asking about this game that is announced publicly , and why there hasn't been a single word on recent info that has been shown. A normal company would have said something about what their making , and all of that , but here we have complete silence , and the use of "Privacy for a public matter." as an excuse.
I believe that is actually a difference in what answers you're seeking versus what other people want to hear. I've been answering more questions than I care to count and my responses were constructed the way they were as a result of those many questions. Now, if you want to know why we haven't said anything about the game since Canterlot Gardens and our most recent events, SweBow actually already answers that quite clearly in his document, if you've read it. If not, it goes something like this: SweBow had a disagreement with the way the other team leads wanted to conduct PR and he went silent in protest. This went on for some time, and despite the other team leads constantly trying to get him to talk to them about some course of action, he remained silent and many things went undone. This included LoE participating in Galacon, which SweBow said before his silence that he was taking care of, and yet never did. Once the other team leads finally gave up trying to rely on SweBow to get PR done, they took matters into their own hands because things needed to get done. Unfortunately, by this time (a few weeks ago), we were already planning content to show off at Fiesta Equestria and Everfree Northwest and now we can't really show anything without ruining the surprise. Remember, we withheld showing content several months before Canterlot Gardens as well. This should be no surprise to you.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
So first off you're saying you don't have to fix it because humans must obtain flaws , but then you say you're trying to fix it? I don't get it at all. Basically everything said so far was that you were sorry you allowed your flaws to be seen , and you never actually cared for them , and are in fact continuing them , but when you see that the others hate that idea 5 seconds later , and you all have been working very hard to improve?
I don't understand what you mean. What I said is that, to me, it appears some of you formulate your arguments acting as if we're perfect robots. What I'm trying to convey is that we're humans and we screw up sometimes. What I'm not saying is that because we're prone to screw up, we can justify all of our bad behavior and move on as if it never happened. It ties back into the fact that all of the stuff SweBow keeps leaking are personal conversations that were obviously hand-picked to show off our flaws. With all that in mind, it means that these issues are things we've been dealing with all along. SweBow bringing them to light hasn't changed how we're dealing with them much. All it did was make you guys more aware of them. We're human, we make mistakes, we got over them, you should too.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
We don't think the way you acted was the abuse. The way you did things such as get rid of Swebow , and constantly try to silence whatever doesn't agree with you was the abuse.
Again, your views on this differ from most of the comments and questions I've received over the course of this whole escapade. However, to address your points, I fail to understand how it was abuse to get rid of SweBow and move inappropriate material from the public forums to team-only sections for review. Are you saying that because the posts contain juicy gossip that you want to know about, it's exempt from the forum rules that are in place that apply to everyone? I find that a ridiculous sentiment, personally. Not to put words in your mouth, but that's how that argument comes off since the only posts we've "censored" were moved (not deleted) because they broke forum rules. I've posted numerous things and told numerous people in skype things that reveal what was told to me by other team leads and other content you may otherwise classify as what we'd want to censor. I've yet to be told to stop making response posts or to stop talking to people about what I know and how I feel. Regarding kicking SweBow, all of the team leads were unanimous in their decision. If I recall correctly, they held that meeting per the team guidelines that SweBow helped draw up, to kick a rogue team member to prevent further issues.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
We aren't talking about forum posts. We're talking about the game The whole argument against them being fame-seekers is that they don't try to rip off anyone elses posts. Considering I find that highly impossible. If someone wanted to be famous he wouldn't (Even though I have no idea how he/she would) try to steal someones post on the forums. It's just forums that aren't even that popular. What they are doing has to do with the game , and NOT the forums.
As you accuse me of not having proof, I'd like to ask you to provide the same. Also, I provided ample defense that didn't have to do with the forums.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
So the recent Swebow leaving has nothing to do with the team failing? Yeah because if it was him that chose to leave , and as a normal desire to stop working he would definitely try to ruin something he helped create.
How is the team failing? We're doing fine over here. Again, I don't know why he would purposely sabotage something he helped foster. I expressed my confusion in my original post. That doesn't deny or refute the facts and evidence at-hand, however.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
Okay here is something that isn't a response to your post: What about the public relations? What's going to happen to it. If the team isn't hiding anything , or falling apart then a simple explanation will show us everything is fine , and dandy
I don't know exactly what's going to happen with PR. For now other team leads are handling it and I'm sure we'll appoint/hire a new team lead soon. What kind of explanation are you looking for?

Quote from: Night Pony on 2013 May 30, 09:13:12
Also doesn't explain the fact why Dandy was banned for expressing her opinion and making suggestions. It also makes me wonder when there was suspicion that Swebow was giving her special treatment nopony bothered to even tell her much less bring her into the discussion.
Dandy was banned because her posts were being reposted by anonymous user(s). Before we had time to investigate who it was reposting, she was banned in the event that it was her who was reposting. She should be unbanned at this point, but I'll double check just in case. I already told them to rectify her ban a couple days ago. Regarding the "special treatment", it was that Dandy Lion and SweBow are good friends and discuss their ideas with one another frequently. Because of that, Dandy's ideas tended to go through SweBow for feedback before she told anybody about them. As a result, SweBow often, but not always, agreed with her. To onlookers, this looked a little suspicious because they seemed to always agree with everything. This "suspicion" was brought to SweBow's attention and SweBow presented his side and cases where he didn't agree, and the topic was promptly dropped. Dandy Lion wasn't part of the discussion because it didn't have to do with her. It had to do with that SweBow constantly advocated for Dandy Lion's ideas, not that there's anything wrong with that in general, and people just wanted to ask him why. Dandy took great offense to that she couldn't provide her own side to it, despite the fact that the topic was dropped and never brought back up again. This one I'm still on the wall about and it definitely could have been handled differently. I do, personally, believe that Dandy overreacted, though, It's not really my place to judge her, I suppose.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 10:12:43
I'd also like to point out how many team members are straying away from this topic. We are constantly told they aren't straying away from anything , but the second people start talking about this they keep posting unrelated pictures , and videos thinking that would change the topic. So why not just stop running away , and come say something? I promise we won't bite.
I fail to understand how "many team members" are straying away from the topic. If you're referring to Hapony and aussie sharing their input about their relationship with their team leader (which is relevant because of the accusations against us), then I hardly understand how that qualifies as us constantly trying to deviate from the topic at-hand. I know I'm not running away from it. If you want me to provide proof for the things I assert, then I should be able to expect the same from you.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Rissian on 2013 May 30, 11:40:59
Quote from: Tekner on 2013 May 30, 10:45:03
Spoiler: show
Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
So basically Swebow "Sabotages" something he worked on for years for revenge? I'm not buying it. With all due respect I don't believe it. (I would like to point out the you're , and your in this are to the team , and not only you Tekner.)

It would harm him more than anyone else. He was here since EO times , and I know the same can be said to other team members , but still the idea that he would try to sabotage something he took part in because of how immature his team was acting makes no sense whatsoever.
As I said a couple times, I was one of the last people to lose faith in him. Among my reasons were that, as you said, it makes no sense for him to sabotage something he worked on for years. That is exactly why I explicitly made it clear that that's what he did. Here is a quote from his May 26th update:
QuoteSo, apparently I got blamed now for releasing sensitive information? No, I release one screenshot, to Dandy, where her post got switched because of my agreement to some of her points!
...
After when I heard I was getting kicked, I started to post more pics for Skype chats. Not really sensitive information at all!

So... I didn't want to release this, but hell. If they wanted sensitive information release; here you go

Canterlot, that has been made so far... and it's been a year... (notice the new shader and pony models? That is kind of cool isn't it? But Ponyville haven't really been updated at all. Everfree haven't been touched)

He outright said that he's releasing sensitive information simply because he doesn't agree with that what he leaked before was sensitive information. He then begins to detail new features that we were saving for the cons. I don't know what your definition of sabotage is, but that clearly fits mine, among his other misdeeds that he admits to doing. Now, I don't believe he's made it his mission to shut down LoE. That's not at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that of the poor decisions he's made regarding sensitive information, almost all of them can be classified as sabotage, and he knows this. I'm speaking more of what that says about his character, than his intent.

Thing is, many of you have an emotional attachment to SweBow that will take time to ease out of. I understand that and am only trying to give you both sides of the argument so that you may form your own opinion of what happened, but regardless of what opinion that turns out to be, we're moving forward with the game.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
Also still when you tried to explain why no official statement was said you completely stray away from the idea , and constantly try to make Swebow look like the bad guy. So still I ask the same question Tiger asks. Why has there not been an official statement?
The reason it feels like I keep trying to make SweBow "the bad guy" is because everything that's happened thus far has its roots in him. If he hadn't gossiped about something that was brought up in a serious manner and was dismissed as a concern almost as soon as it was brought up, Dandy wouldn't have quit the team. If he didn't leak the private conversations and material, he wouldn't have gotten in trouble and would still be on the team. It all goes back to him because he abused his admin privileges and our trust in him. Does that make him a "bad guy"? I won't say. That's up to you to decide.

As to why there's no official statement yet... I clearly explained why a couple of times, from a couple of different angles. If you didn't see my explanations, then you should reread my post. The jyst of it was because SweBow, being the old PR lead, won't give us some of our necessary PR tools back and that there are consequences to making a public statement about all of this.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
Also you keep saying that just because we don't see something happening doesn't mean something isn't happening. Well then can I please see an example of what is happening? Then later you say "We aren't hiding anything" , and "We are entitled to our own privacy." In the same sentence. I don't really have to point out what's wrong.
The only examples I could give are our skype discussions about PR, future events, if/how we're going to make a public announcement, etc. I need consent from everyone in those conversations before I can show them to you. I suppose the only other proof I can show, however small, is the screenshot I posted above where Anya is giving Hapony and I her support in posting what we feel we need to and that Hapony is among the many team members who got over all this drama already.

Actually, there isn't anything wrong with that statement. "We aren't hiding anything" was a response to the accusation that we're picking sides and purposely hiding evidence of more wrongdoings on our part solely to cover it up. "We are entitled to our own privacy." has to do with the fact that all of the gossip going around about who said what and how we were affected by it has nothing to do with you guys and shouldn't be made public. They were put together like that to mean this, put more succinctly: "Our personal conversations were inappropriately made public. You guys didn't need to know about them in the first place because they aren't any of your concern, and no we're not just saying that because we have anything to cover up." Obviously there has to be a sense of trust in the first place in order for you to believe any of that. This is one of the areas I'm not going to go out of my way to prove because common sense dictates that this is the case anyway, and it doesn't matter if you trust me about that. You can choose to believe us or not. It doesn't change that we're still working on LoE without SweBow and those who chose to leave us. That was their decision and we're not letting it affect us beyond that.


Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
Also we aren't asking any personal questions about anyone's life. We were asking about this game that is announced publicly , and why there hasn't been a single word on recent info that has been shown. A normal company would have said something about what their making , and all of that , but here we have complete silence , and the use of "Privacy for a public matter." as an excuse.
I believe that is actually a difference in what answers you're seeking versus what other people want to hear. I've been answering more questions than I care to count and my responses were constructed the way they were as a result of those many questions. Now, if you want to know why we haven't said anything about the game since Canterlot Gardens and our most recent events, SweBow actually already answers that quite clearly in his document, if you've read it. If not, it goes something like this: SweBow had a disagreement with the way the other team leads wanted to conduct PR and he went silent in protest. This went on for some time, and despite the other team leads constantly trying to get him to talk to them about some course of action, he remained silent and many things went undone. This included LoE participating in Galacon, which SweBow said before his silence that he was taking care of, and yet never did. Once the other team leads finally gave up trying to rely on SweBow to get PR done, they took matters into their own hands because things needed to get done. Unfortunately, by this time (a few weeks ago), we were already planning content to show off at Fiesta Equestria and Everfree Northwest and now we can't really show anything without ruining the surprise. Remember, we withheld showing content several months before Canterlot Gardens as well. This should be no surprise to you.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
So first off you're saying you don't have to fix it because humans must obtain flaws , but then you say you're trying to fix it? I don't get it at all. Basically everything said so far was that you were sorry you allowed your flaws to be seen , and you never actually cared for them , and are in fact continuing them , but when you see that the others hate that idea 5 seconds later , and you all have been working very hard to improve?
I don't understand what you mean. What I said is that, to me, it appears some of you formulate your arguments acting as if we're perfect robots. What I'm trying to convey is that we're humans and we screw up sometimes. What I'm not saying is that because we're prone to screw up, we can justify all of our bad behavior and move on as if it never happened. It ties back into the fact that all of the stuff SweBow keeps leaking are personal conversations that were obviously hand-picked to show off our flaws. With all that in mind, it means that these issues are things we've been dealing with all along. SweBow bringing them to light hasn't changed how we're dealing with them much. All it did was make you guys more aware of them. We're human, we make mistakes, we got over them, you should too.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
We don't think the way you acted was the abuse. The way you did things such as get rid of Swebow , and constantly try to silence whatever doesn't agree with you was the abuse.
Again, your views on this differ from most of the comments and questions I've received over the course of this whole escapade. However, to address your points, I fail to understand how it was abuse to get rid of SweBow and move inappropriate material from the public forums to team-only sections for review. Are you saying that because the posts contain juicy gossip that you want to know about, it's exempt from the forum rules that are in place that apply to everyone? I find that a ridiculous sentiment, personally. Not to put words in your mouth, but that's how that argument comes off since the only posts we've "censored" were moved (not deleted) because they broke forum rules. I've posted numerous things and told numerous people in skype things that reveal what was told to me by other team leads and other content you may otherwise classify as what we'd want to censor. I've yet to be told to stop making response posts or to stop talking to people about what I know and how I feel. Regarding kicking SweBow, all of the team leads were unanimous in their decision. If I recall correctly, they held that meeting per the team guidelines that SweBow helped draw up, to kick a rogue team member to prevent further issues.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
We aren't talking about forum posts. We're talking about the game The whole argument against them being fame-seekers is that they don't try to rip off anyone elses posts. Considering I find that highly impossible. If someone wanted to be famous he wouldn't (Even though I have no idea how he/she would) try to steal someones post on the forums. It's just forums that aren't even that popular. What they are doing has to do with the game , and NOT the forums.
As you accuse me of not having proof, I'd like to ask you to provide the same. Also, I provided ample defense that didn't have to do with the forums.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
So the recent Swebow leaving has nothing to do with the team failing? Yeah because if it was him that chose to leave , and as a normal desire to stop working he would definitely try to ruin something he helped create.
How is the team failing? We're doing fine over here. Again, I don't know why he would purposely sabotage something he helped foster. I expressed my confusion in my original post. That doesn't deny or refute the facts and evidence at-hand, however.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
Okay here is something that isn't a response to your post: What about the public relations? What's going to happen to it. If the team isn't hiding anything , or falling apart then a simple explanation will show us everything is fine , and dandy
I don't know exactly what's going to happen with PR. For now other team leads are handling it and I'm sure we'll appoint/hire a new team lead soon. What kind of explanation are you looking for?

Quote from: Night Pony on 2013 May 30, 09:13:12
Also doesn't explain the fact why Dandy was banned for expressing her opinion and making suggestions. It also makes me wonder when there was suspicion that Swebow was giving her special treatment nopony bothered to even tell her much less bring her into the discussion.
Dandy was banned because her posts were being reposted by anonymous user(s). Before we had time to investigate who it was reposting, she was banned in the event that it was her who was reposting. She should be unbanned at this point, but I'll double check just in case. I already told them to rectify her ban a couple days ago. Regarding the "special treatment", it was that Dandy Lion and SweBow are good friends and discuss their ideas with one another frequently. Because of that, Dandy's ideas tended to go through SweBow for feedback before she told anybody about them. As a result, SweBow often, but not always, agreed with her. To onlookers, this looked a little suspicious because they seemed to always agree with everything. This "suspicion" was brought to SweBow's attention and SweBow presented his side and cases where he didn't agree, and the topic was promptly dropped. Dandy Lion wasn't part of the discussion because it didn't have to do with her. It had to do with that SweBow constantly advocated for Dandy Lion's ideas, not that there's anything wrong with that in general, and people just wanted to ask him why. Dandy took great offense to that she couldn't provide her own side to it, despite the fact that the topic was dropped and never brought back up again. This one I'm still on the wall about and it definitely could have been handled differently. I do, personally, believe that Dandy overreacted, though, It's not really my place to judge her, I suppose.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 10:12:43
I'd also like to point out how many team members are straying away from this topic. We are constantly told they aren't straying away from anything , but the second people start talking about this they keep posting unrelated pictures , and videos thinking that would change the topic. So why not just stop running away , and come say something? I promise we won't bite.
I fail to understand how "many team members" are straying away from the topic. If you're referring to Hapony and aussie sharing their input about their relationship with their team leader (which is relevant because of the accusations against us), then I hardly understand how that qualifies as us constantly trying to deviate from the topic at-hand. I know I'm not running away from it. If you want me to provide proof for the things I assert, then I should be able to expect the same from you.



How come you're the only team member even providing answers you aren't an admin and this issue had some of the highest level admin's who can post in areas that you can't see, It's like that in any forum. You have different groups with different levels of access to forum data. I don't mean this in a mean way either I just want a straight answer.  :s  I've been to more than enough forums to know about group permissions and each and every forum I went to had a system such as that and admins can see every single thing.

Members > Team members > Team Leaders > Mods > Admins (Granted I don't know if all team leaders are admins but I know some are.) It's obvious which ones to as only admins can edit certain things in the forum data.

And there seems to be confusion among the forums and their team members and leaders. Only 3 team leaders are being targeted on this the others are perfectly fine. That's likely why Hapony responded in that way but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 11:55:02
Well that makes more sense even though it doesn't show him as a bad guy. So basically he talked about something that barely even had any sensitive info , and then took some skype pics which also didn't matter much so then he gets kicked out? For not doing anything worth kicking him out of his long time working? Well then I support him doing that. If the judgement is as biased as that I would have not only did that , but I would have did my best to murder the project.

This guy spent years working here , and he gets kicked. For no good reason. Well by giving you a valid reason he's actually helping you. What did you guys think would happen? You kick him for such small , and harmless things , and then we all get along nicely , and have soft tacos?

Tekner you've worked here for a year right? Lets say you worked here for 3. You do something very harmless , and out of the blue you get kicked out of the project. all your work is now gone , and the people you worked for are now taking credit for it. What would you do? Would you out kindly , and say "Sure why not" , and before you say you wouldn't try to harm them , and would leave angrily you would be saying that you would let something you invested your time , and effort in be taken from you , and exploited for no good reason.

Also this doesn't count as sabotage. Sabotage would be destroying the game , or anything in it , or he could make fake info to try to frame the team. This is not sabotage , and it is proving that the team is very very very unproffesional. So in fact what he did ALSO shouldn't get him kicked.

I'm being trained to let emotion not get in the way of the truth (Course in law & defense). If my brother commits a crime I would not lie , and say exactly everything what happened. So defending swebow has nothing to do with friendship i'm defending him because he's right.

Also I was beginning to think that they actually didn't care about fame until you showed me that. Now i'm certain of it. So Swebow is gone , and he had done tons of work. Now that he's gone that credit is passed on to the team leaders who didn't do it. Before you say it's passed on to Ellowee that doesn't make it right. Swebow did those things , and he was the reason they happened.

Also if you say "The team leaders won't get the fame because of Ellowee." an easy counter argument is: Ellowee isn't real. From everything I heard El ow ee (LoE) is a dumb attempt at making a mascot to replace Swebow who wasn't even the mascot.  So basically since Ellowee isn't a real person there are only two attempts you can go with this:
1.You let no one control Ellowee meaning that Swebows work isn't even credited at all. Meaning that the PR  will not have a leader. so the fame will be passed on to the workers , and there will be utter chaos.

2. Someone controls Ellowee , and then whoever controls her gets the fame meaning it's a poor attempt at hiding the credit they steal.

I wanted to ask about the PR team to see what you were going for with the whole LoE.

Also there is another 2 point extravaganza:
1.The team is lazy , and is barely doing any work , and is getting fame for it. Which is why they barely touched the game for a few months.

2. The team is working at their best , but apparantly the game is going to take approximately  20 years for completion. 7 for alpha to kick in.

So now it seems that the small canterlot stuff Swebow showed us were the only things you planned to show in the next convention leaving everything you didn't work on hidden. So basically you wouldn't have gotten any work done during the time left before the con.

So basically unless you make official statements about the game I doubt it's going anywhere , and that i'm waiting for nothing.

Also I never accused you for not having proof , and that is a way to back away from what I said. Also if you want proof they won't ever use the forums for fame is that these are not popular forums at all. It's lucky to get 50 people online at the same time so you don't see someone calling themselves famous because someone liked their post.

Also what I meant by straying away was that they constantly change the subject. With threads like "The end of the beginning." , and posting random music , and pictures on this thread instead of doing anything. Also the whole award thing was made just to distract us.

Yep the team seems fine , and Dandy. Considering they have a huge PR crisis , and we now know they haven't had any work done for that past year.

Speaking of Dandy if she was supposed to be unbanned i'd like the team to unban Dandy because i'm very interested in hearing her word in this.

I also agree with Trege. Why don't the people that are targeted say something? I know Anya made that apology thread where the whole apology was just apologizing that they let people know they did wrong , and never actually apologized about the actual wrong , or explained what they were gonna do about it.

Also the reason these 3 were targeted was because Swebow exposed them of stealing credit , and them having us believe that the game had some major progress.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: AlDeezy on 2013 May 30, 13:59:49
Tekner, thanks for being up front and going so far to give us a better picture as to what's going on.

Also, your apology is accepted  ^-^. *hugs*

Spoiler: RE: Blues • show

Remember that there really is no black or white to this, only black and white. I love SweBow; he's a pretty awesome guy. Look how far he went to get his viewpoints heard! But... that's the thing. By going so far to express his concerns, he has also ruffled some feathers that shouldn't have been. No one is perfect, and we make little mistakes sometimes. Sometimes we make big ones! It's not that what SweBow posted was wrong, it's just that it wasn't exactly right either.
As stated by several team members now, this has been blown a bit out of proportion. I fee terrible for anyone who has been subject to bullying within the LoE team under the guise of having fun, and hopefully after this backlash things will be restructured and reanalyzed for the better.

[quote author="Blues-Magic"]You cant talk about something public because it's private?[/quote]
Could have worded that a bit... better. We really have no right to hound LoE staff members for every issue that arises. It's bad luck that this got an attention hike. Concern is one thing, but worrying to the point of needing to know everything at all times is counter productive and stress inducing.

[quote author="Blues-Magic"]I'd also like to point out how many team members are straying away from this topic. We are constantly told they aren't straying away from anything , but the second people start talking about this they keep posting unrelated pictures , and videos thinking that would change the topic. So why not just stop running away , and come say something?[/quote]
Your eyes must be a bit glossed over over this. We are getting a response by the team! Although the entire team isn't always responding at all times, we're not really leaving topic. Also, diabeetus inducing ponies are ALWAYS welcome.

[quote author="Blues-Magic"]This guy spent years working here , and he gets kicked. For no good reason. Well by giving you a valid reason he's actually helping you. What did you guys think would happen? You kick him for such small , and harmless things , and then we all get along nicely , and have soft tacos?[/quote]
There are always good and bad reasons behind everything. I don't think the LoE team is that selfish that they would remove SweBow "just cuz he cramppin' mai style-z". There are repercussions to any action, and they just built stress and tension over time.

[quote author="Blues-Magic"]
From everything I heard El ow ee (LoE) is a dumb attempt at making a mascot to replace Swebow who wasn't even the mascot.[/quote]
You probably just heard opinions on the matter. LoE has come out and stated that it was just a coincidence the dates were matched up in that way. We can only have our suspicions, but as far as what has been officially released, we can't assume Elowee is a replacement.

Blues, please see the other side to this. The point of this discussion to to put everyone on the same playing field and look at things through everyone's eyes. The purpose of debate is to not pick sides, but to be able to see all sides. Arguing without an open mind is inefficient and a waste of effort. I know you may not agree with LoE, but at the same time you should not fully agree with the opposition. Remember, no black or white; on black [quote]and[/quote] white.


Spoiler: RE: Trege • show

[quote author=Trege]"How come you're the only team member even providing answers..."[/quote]
I would like to know this as well! Public apologies are one thing, but what about the Q&A that follows? People do need to have their concerns settled and questions answered, after all. Even if the answer is "We can not answer that," it's still an answer.


Spoiler: RE: Tiger • show

[quote author: Tiger]Blues speaks the truth. SweBow's been around for a very, very long time. Even if he did decide to leave on his own, I doubt he would try and sabotage LOE as he wouldn't have had a reason to. But here he tells us of all this, which must be the truth.

As Blues says, if there's nothing to hide then get to the point. The production of LOE isn't in your own privacy, it's for the public, so show us. Show us what's happening.[/quote]
I wish I could agree with you. I really do. Knowing the exact level of completion would be pretty cool, but I it would rob us of the feeling of progression. Plus, the big updates at cons wouldn't be for anything! Game dev teams have a right to secrecy with their projects, and they are not bound by any means to show us anything they do. They fact that they update us at all at the pre-Alpha stage astounds me. Having to deal with a fandom this early in the dev is almost unheard of!

There is no way that SweBow would intentionally try to kill this project. Any negative feedback regarding the leaks should be taken to be unintentional. He wanted to bring to light some things he felt that were wrong, and took the heat for releasing them.


Spoiler: RE: Everyone • show
(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/018/5/8/hugs_all_around____mlp_mosaic__by_war59-d5rxeft.jpg)
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Teal Turken on 2013 May 30, 15:17:56
Why is it we don't get an official statement but we get "Do you like Sit?" by Anya.
Anya, your attempt to butter up the community through your rewards and your thread will not work on me. :l
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Brick Stonewood on 2013 May 30, 16:08:12
There are a few things that I would like to clear up, since it is fairly evident that I've been summoned forth to give my input on this issue. I will present the facts on those issues as I see them. There are certain details, that for the sake of privacy of both past and current team members, I am neither willing nor able to disclose.

In the first place, Dandy's post was "silenced" because it broke many different rules all at once. It included personal attacks on multiple team members, cursing, controversial topics, and a link to content which violated forum rules, among other things. We moved it to an area wherein only team members could see it, because it did still contain suggestions, and we did value those suggestions. Being an ex-member of the development team, she was well aware of the rules she was violating, and posted it regardless. So yes, this detail did contribute greatly to her ban.

In the second place, Ellowee was conceptualized before SweBow ever left. She was never intended to replace anyone. Many development teams adopt mascots, and there is absolutely no reason to assume any malicious intent behind a mascot appearing. Many different team members were involved in her conception, and a few team members are responsible for her posts. The fact that most or all of you have no way of knowing which members I'm speaking of means that she is fulfilling her purpose, and will not be expressly associated with any individual members. Please leave her out of this.

In the third place, the awards are equally unrelated. Tekner is correct in saying that the majority of the team has moved on. While we're not ignoring the controversy, we are absolutely still working on the game. We've made some great progress, and when the conventions come, I hope you all get to see some of the amazing work that's been done. I, for one, am extremely excited about this prospect. Progress has not stopped, and the content that was leaked did very little to showcase our progress since the last public appearance we've made. I would have liked to show you a bit more along the way, were it up to me, but I'm not responsible for that department, and although I may not have agreed with SweBow's decision to keep our progress a secret during that time, I was certainly willing to comply with it. In the meantime, a few of us did try a few things to keep the public interested in our own little ways, with whatever small ideas we could think up to let the forum members know we still cared about them. We started holding artist showcases to give team members credit for their works and let the fans know of some of the processes involved in game creation. We tried having "notable pony awards" at one point, and issued out titles to a few other members as well, such as "Propane Salesman," and "America's Sweetheart," among other things. The recent awards are no different. While this may have been construed as attention-seeking behavior by some, that was never the intention, and those of us who took part in these do not, in my opinion, deserve to be attacked for doing so. I'm not telling you this to say that I'm firmly against receiving attention. That would be a lie. I like receiving attention about as much as I like re-watching Trainspotting. If it's right in front of me, I'm not going to turn it down, but it's certainly not a driving force in my life either. If there's honestly a need for me to explain this, I even asked if I should be the one to upload the artist showcases before I put them on the internet, and SweBow personally approved of each one before I did.

In the fourth place, you are somewhat correct in assuming that we would like for this to blow over without a large number of outside parties getting involved. We have a game we're trying to develop. That is our objective. Letting all of our fans in on any and all personal drama we might experience between ourselves would be counter-intuitive to that goal. Every second I spend typing this message out is a second I could be using to reach that goal. I'm doing it now because I care about the forum members enough to at least attempt to put your minds at ease about the development of the project. (And also because every page view gets us that much closer to covering server costs.  X3) What I won't do, however, is start throwing out accusations toward or about anyone who has been, up to this point, helping us reach the goal of completing the game. The reasons for SweBow's removal have been publicly stated, and they are completely genuine. If I were to go through, point by point, and analyze every single shortcoming of his that I've been exposed to in the two years I've worked with him, it might make some of you feel better about the justification behind the decision. However, I refuse to take part in that sort of mud-slinging, and if my reputation is damaged as a result of that refusal, then so be it.

Lastly, A team member of mine has already stated his opinion on the matter in this thread. If you don't want to take his word for it, ask another member, or perhaps even an ex-member, if I'm unfair in my leadership, or if anyone else would be better suited for my position. I've told each of them multiple times that if they ever wish to challenge what authority I have, they're welcome to do so at any time. Out of the members I've had on my team, I've had exactly one member who left on poor terms. That was almost two years ago, and the member in question came back later and apologized for the conduct involved with that parting. I tell you these things because I want you to realize that the people making allegations against me, taking my words out of context, misquoting me, or in some cases, just completely lying about me, are not by any means indicative of the views of the team as a whole, or as a majority. The fact that no current team members have spoken ill of the team leaders, I can assure you, has nothing to do with censorship.

I'm well aware that the things I'm telling you are probably not what you want to hear. For that, I will not apologize. I'm speaking only for myself, because my opinions are the only ones I can state confidently. I will not publicly speculate on the goals, demeanor, or mental state of any other party involved, I will not take it upon myself to pass judgement on those I have no authority over, and I will certainly not share with you what has been shared with me in confidence without the express consent of any other involved parties, regardless of whether or not the same has been done to myself or to any of my close friends and/or co-workers. I wish ill upon no one, and I will make no attempt to harm the reputation of anyone involved. If any of you are worried about the future of Legends of Equestria, your concern is somewhat understandable given the circumstances, but unfounded. Progress is being made, and will continue to be made for a very long time. If any of you are worried about who might be to blame for a conflict that is completely resolved aside from the perpetuation being brought about by people with allegedly good intentions, I'm afraid the only advice I can give is "Don't be."
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Rissian on 2013 May 30, 16:32:43
Quote from: Brick Stonewood on 2013 May 30, 16:08:12
In the first place, Dandy's post was "silenced" because it broke many different rules all at once. It included personal attacks on multiple team members, cursing, controversial topics, and a link to content which violated forum rules, among other things. We moved it to an area wherein only team members could see it, because it did still contain suggestions, and we did value those suggestions. Being an ex-member of the development team, she was well aware of the rules she was violating, and posted it regardless. So yes, this detail did contribute greatly to her ban.


I have a copy of her first post in HTML in case this was ever brought up. It contained no cursing all it contained was one vulgar word which a mod had already edited out. I woke up around 7AM that day and backed it up, edited and unedited. If you're going to try and explain it you should tell what was actually in the post. It was calm compared to what the Internet is normally like. Ever since this started I've been backing up information so nothing gets twisted. Very few rules that are listed on the forum were broken in that post not enough requiring censorship. (Just wanted to clear this part up.)

I also have an Opera web archive of the page that day in case this was ever brought up as well.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Albino on 2013 May 30, 16:34:14
Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 10:12:43
I'd also like to point out how many team members are straying away from this topic. We are constantly told they aren't straying away from anything , but the second people start talking about this they keep posting unrelated pictures , and videos thinking that would change the topic. So why not just stop running away , and come say something? I promise we won't bite.


I can't speak for the others, but the reason *I* am posting pony pictures is because this is supposed to be a place to have fun, not pour fuel on a fire.  >:/ If you want this place to get happier and more tolerant, BE happier and more tolerant. In other words, keep calm and pony on.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Teal Turken on 2013 May 30, 16:48:02
If the LoE staff expects me to believe anything they say, they need to prove 2 things to me.

1. I want to see proof that the team is actually happy with their leaders. What was it, 9 members left reportedly because of abuse? All (or at least most of what I've seen) the other members who are not team leaders that have posted on this thead have said the same thing: "My team leader is nice"

2. I want to see proof that the game is actually being worked on. I don't recall seeing any bit of info being released since the stress test last year. That "Road to Alpha" image sure hasn't changed that much since then.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Brick Stonewood on 2013 May 30, 16:54:41
Quote from: Trege on 2013 May 30, 16:32:43

I have a copy of her first post in HTML in case this was ever brought up. It contained no cursing all it contained was one vulgar word which a mod had already edited out. I woke up around 7AM that day and backed it up, edited and unedited. If you're going to try and explain it you should tell what was actually in the post. It was calm compared to what the Internet is normally like. Ever since this started I've been backing up information so nothing gets twisted. Very few rules that are listed on the forum were broken in that post not enough requiring censorship. (Just wanted to clear this part up.)

I also have an Opera web archive of the page that day in case this was ever brought up as well.


This is mostly correct, yes. A moderator did remove some language from the post beforehand. Had that been the only violation, we'd have left a censored version up, as we do with most posts containing one or a few pieces of isolated language. However, the post broke eight separate forum rules, and there was no way to remove every violation without completely destroying what was originally stated. The post needed to be moved at an absolute minimum, and failure to take any sort of disciplinary action would have been, in my opinion, giving her more privelage than we would normally afford a regular user. The first mods to act probably thought it was okay because she was on the team at one point, but some of us are more strict about the rules than others. For instance, I'm not going to yell at you for violating rule #3 just now.

Quote from: Teal Turken on 2013 May 30, 16:48:02
If the LoE staff expects me to believe anything they say, they need to prove 2 things to me.

1. I want to see proof that the team is actually happy with their leaders. What was it, 9 members left reportedly because of abuse? All (or at least most of what I've seen) the other members who are not team leaders that have posted on this thead have said the same thing: "My team leader is nice"

2. I want to see proof that the game is actually being worked on. I don't recall seeing any bit of info being released since the stress test last year. That "Road to Alpha" image sure hasn't changed that much since then.


Most of the team members who left did so for unrelated reasons, but were dragged into the controversy simply for having left at the wrong time. It's unfortunate, but we're certainly not going to make them stay. If every team member in the thread telling you explicitly that their team leader is nice isn't proof enough that they're happy with their team leaders, I don't know how else to prove it to you.

You'll see proof that the game is being worked on as soon as we release information. The conventions start in one month, and it would be unfair to the conventions to deny premiering any new material simply because a few forum members demanded it. As the old saying goes, it's impossible to please everybody.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: McSleuthburger on 2013 May 30, 17:02:54
I dont know if me responding will help much but eh either way its worth a shot

As to the official statement, (if there is one released) I would have to guess it would repeat a lot of what Tekner has said previously and maybe some things I will say

regards to Swebow: He was released from the team because he leaked out information about the game. Information that we were saving up for the upcoming cons for example. Doing that goes directly against our code of conduct. Breaking code of conduct = punishment (so that is why that happens) If he didnt release the information, things would not be where they are now. Believe me Blues if we could all sit down and enjoy soft tacos I would be the McSleuthburger the Taco King.

Just because you havent seen anything about the game doesnt mean work is not getting done. You do realize a game like this usually takes a professional, paid staff maybe around 4-5 years to fully make. We are a team of late teens - mid twenties volunteering our time to make A GAME FOR YOU. A good game isint going to magically appear within a year for a group of volunteers

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 10:12:43
I'd also like to point out how many team members are straying away from this topic. We are constantly told they aren't straying away from anything , but the second people start talking about this they keep posting unrelated pictures , and videos thinking that would change the topic. So why not just stop running away , and come say something? I promise we won't bite.


You do realize that we are still trying to answer all of your questions though, Im guess they are posting pictures just to try and lighten up the mood a bit because it is kinda of depressing going through all of this

Lastly being in moderation I would think that I have the best idea of how Perry acts with us. Yes he tells me to work harder and pokes fun at me but it is no big deal because I know he isint serious with it. He just tries to lighten up the mood. He kinda lets me go around doing whatever I want because he believes in me and that I will make the right decision. I dont think he is trying to take all the glory from me doing my job (I dont know if there is glory in moderating  lol) He knows if I really have a problem that I will go and contact him to get it resolved.

So I dont know if that helps or just makes more questions but thats what I got

Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Teal Turken on 2013 May 30, 17:06:16
I understand you're holding all the game's info for the conventions, so I won't hold that against you. Besides if all the team was guilty of was laziness then that would just suck and that'd be it.

I don't feel like I can trust what the members say on this thread because many of their replies look like copy-pastes to me.
I'm not saying I WANT them to say something bad about one of the team leaders, but I want them to say something about the ACCUSED team leaders. Have they ever felt a choice made by a team leader was not the best for LoE? Something like that.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Rissian on 2013 May 30, 17:07:50
Quote from: Brick Stonewood on 2013 May 30, 16:54:41
Quote from: Trege on 2013 May 30, 16:32:43

I have a copy of her first post in HTML in case this was ever brought up. It contained no cursing all it contained was one vulgar word which a mod had already edited out. I woke up around 7AM that day and backed it up, edited and unedited. If you're going to try and explain it you should tell what was actually in the post. It was calm compared to what the Internet is normally like. Ever since this started I've been backing up information so nothing gets twisted. Very few rules that are listed on the forum were broken in that post not enough requiring censorship. (Just wanted to clear this part up.)

I also have an Opera web archive of the page that day in case this was ever brought up as well.


This is mostly correct, yes. A moderator did remove some language from the post beforehand. Had that been the only violation, we'd have left a censored version up, as we do with most posts containing one or a few pieces of isolated language in any post. However, the post broke eight separate forum rules, and there was no way to remove every violation without completely destroying what was originally stated. The post needed to be moved at an absolute minimum, and failure to take any sort of disciplinary action would have been, in my opinion, giving her more privelage than we would normally afford a regular user. The first mods to act probably thought it was okay because she was on the team at one point, but some of us are more strict about the rules than others. For instance, I'm not going to yell at you for violating rule #3 just now.

Fair enough but I'm asking that you to stop exaggerating in the attempt to make someone look bad. Only 1 personal attack was in Dandy's post. Considering That's the first rule I've ever broken in this forum was rule 3 just now.

If you want people to start trusting you, you need to not exaggerate what's true or false.

PS :
A problem with rule 3 is you can make anything against the rules with it. You have the right to do that because it's the team's forum but the way you use it will affect the normal members like me and the other normal member's views on you so you should use it wisely.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Tekner on 2013 May 30, 17:21:43
Quote from: Trege on 2013 May 30, 16:32:43
I have a copy of her first post in HTML in case this was ever brought up. It contained no cursing all it contained was one vulgar word which a mod had already edited out. ... Very few rules that are listed on the forum were broken in that post ...
Don't forget, I do too. I've even shown it to you, so you know that I'm using the same post. Her post broke the following rules as far as I can see:

As I said, these are just broken rules that I can see.

Quote from: Trege on 2013 May 30, 16:32:43
It was calm compared to what the Internet is normally like.
Trege, this isn't the rest of the internet. This is a forum with strict rules about keeping things family-friendly.

Quote from: Trege on 2013 May 30, 16:32:43
not enough requiring censorship
Rules 8 and 3.

Quote from: Teal Turken on 2013 May 30, 16:48:02
I want to see proof that the team is actually happy with their leaders.
I think the proof I gave that none of us are being stopped from speaking out what we feel about all this is proof enough that no one else is unhappy enough to speak out. It's not like they'd need to make an inflammatory post stating that they're leaving, which would be censored like Dandy's was. They could simply state that they're leaving because of all the drama. I haven't seen any of that aside from the first four people, who were also close-knit friends and thus had personal ties to what happened. Also, my defense of LoE should imply that I have no residual issues with what's happened. We've had four more members since then post on this thread that they're completely content. If that doesn't count, then I don't know what you're looking for.

Quote from: Teal Turken on 2013 May 30, 17:06:16
Have they ever felt a choice made by a team leader was not the best for LoE? Something like that.
I know I've already said multiple times that I don't appreciate Anya's immature prose or hijinks and that I've been on her case about it... I can't think of anything off the top of my head that Bloomberg did that I don't agree with, and I've already stated that I find it preposterous to try to accuse Perry of doing anything wrong at all.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Teal Turken on 2013 May 30, 17:30:16
Spoiler: show
I knew I should've waited a week or a few before saying anything. I rushed in and let emotions speak for myself and I'm pretty sure I appear not only dumb buy hypocritical.
I'm just dropping out of the thread until I think I know what I'm going to say.
But again I don't feel convinced that the team members are truthfully speaking for themselves.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Rissian on 2013 May 30, 17:33:53
Quote from: Tekner on 2013 May 30, 17:21:43
Quote from: Trege on 2013 May 30, 16:32:43
I have a copy of her first post in HTML in case this was ever brought up. It contained no cursing all it contained was one vulgar word which a mod had already edited out. ... It was calm compared to what the Internet is normally like. ... Very few rules that are listed on the forum were broken in that post not enough requiring censorship.
Don't forget, I do too. I've even shown it to you, so you know that I'm using the same post. Her post broke the following rules as far as I can see:

  • 1. The Golden Rule - This one is iffy at best, but the personal attack may qualify, as well as the, albeit calmer, threats.

  • 7. No Obscenity - You might not qualify her attack at the end as obscenity, but consider that it touches on sensitive topics and wasn't conducive to her main post at all.

  • 8. No Flaming/Arguing - This rule explicitly targets personal attacks. This one, as it is written, overtly says that posts with this content will be removed outright.

  • 12. Avoid sensitive material - This ties back into rule 7.

  • 14. Controversial posts - Self explanatory

  • 3. We have the final say - I list this one last because it supersedes all other rules. And if one were to argue that we're abusing this rule to censor things we don't like, remember that most organizations have this rule in place as well - it's not and uncommon "rule". Heck, most every restaurant I walk into has a sign that says "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."



As I said, these are just broken rules that I can see.


Yeah, I recognize that multiple places have that rule I'm just saying it should be used wisely or others may distrust you further and that's bad for the game and the community. And I hope team members aren't exempt from the rules. Even in the private boards that only mods team leaders and admin's can see. An old forum I used to hang out in had this same exact group setup for members mods and admins etc color coded and everything.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Sea Foam on 2013 May 30, 18:14:31
To both Tekner and Brick Stonewood, thank you.

I thank you because, regardless of if your information is truthful or not, you are taking time out to 'settle the storm,' so to speak. It is very much appreciated.

I will not say that I believe all that you say and I will not say that I believe all that Swebow has said. I try to remain as non-biased as I can so I can form my own views and opinions. So here's what I have to say from what I've gathered.

First of all, this is getting out of hand. I refer back to my previous post in this thread: this really has become a glorious controversy and it's starting to feel ridiculous.

     Going back to what many have said, this is a volunteer project managed by volunteers with an average age of mid-20s.
Of course some people are going to mess around with others and of course jokes will be pulled. There is no way, no possible way, that this team can run as smoothly as clockwork as many of us want to think and there is no way that the team will be the happiest, most agreeable family since the Brady Bunch. The disagreements and the immature jokes they pull on one another is none of our business and we can not expect them to let us in on every single detail. Doing so is outright counterproductive and, quite frankly, I don't care what goes on. I care that the game is being made and no one is being wronged or hurt in that process. The only reason I harp on the subject is because I feel some wrong has been done somewhere, but not to the extent that a lot of you think. What is done seems pretty much done and I have confidence that the team can sort out their own problems.

     Regarding the new awards. If this was not just some distraction, then it was simply bad timing. Really horrible timing, to be honest. Even if the intent was to lighten the mood, it should have been done after some kind of statement. It should have been implemented in the recovery period of this whole mess, not while it was still in full swing.
     I understand that a lot of the team feel that this is over and done, but many are still waiting and I don't think the recovery period is just quite here yet, as much as it should be.

     I do still think there should be some kind of official statement, that much hasn't changed from my last post. I understand that it may seem like a waste of time or the team may not have the resources, (providing Swebow is holding those resources back) but I think a simple thread on the subject would suffice. However, what I'm seeing in this thread as of now is a massive step in the right direction and I find it very admirable the attention that some team members are giving.

     The mascot.... this one is just asinine. It's a mascot, nothing more nothing less. I can't see it as anything but a mascot.

     I'd like to reiterate: I am on no one's side here. These are my thoughts and this is how I see the situation. I think the time to recover has come.
     Neither side can truly defend themselves without scrutiny, at this point. No explanation can be definitively proven. I don't think much more is left to be said. It's time to move on.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: AlDeezy on 2013 May 30, 18:32:24
Quote from: Trege on 2013 May 30, 17:33:53
And I hope team members aren't exempt from the rules.


Dandy's removed post goes to show that they aren't!

Is anypony aware of "Selective Attention"? It's when one focuses on a single stimuli and ignores everything else. I bring this up because it leads to a predetermined bias in this context. For example, when someone you don't like achieves a difficult task, you may be inclined to think they cheated to win, but if your best friend achieves the same task, you may think it's because they're a hard working person.

The human brain also tends to enjoy "confirmation bias," where you pick out ideas that agree with your own hypotheses.

Quote from: Teal Turken on 2013 May 30, 17:06:16
I don't feel like I can trust what the members say on this thread because many of their replies look like copy-pastes to me.


What exactly makes you think my responses aren't just copy paste? How can I be sure yours aren't? We can't all assume that the only honest people are yourself and others who agree with you. The team members are speaking with us, and discussing with us. Arguing for the sake of being right isn't the way to go about this topic. A lot of hostility is being thrown at the team, and they're not really throwing back. Instead of denying what they are trying to say, why not try to satisfy your curiosity as to what happened?

A semi-topical selfish question here- Why was this thread (http://forum.legendsofequestria.com/index.php?topic=7296.0) made the day after the explanation behind SweBow's removal? Just 'cuz it was funny? I personally was very hurt by it, along with a few other comments made by team members seemingly mocking the whole situation. Comments made in public. For some reason.
If we are to believe that LoE cares about its image and how its fans view how well the team works, why and how are these things in existence? I get that the work environment is to be really informal for the sake of progression (and because fun team is best team), but I can't help but question the current professional boundaries that are in place.

@Sea Foam-
Although I agree for the most part, I would still like to know that this team's clockwork is well-maintained. Speaking from experience I know that it is possible to do many great things with volunteers, and still be able to keep the structure fairly stable. I hope that the community concerns have reached the right ears, and that some restructuring is going on, even if it is a few isolated incidences.

Also, we've gone too long in this thread without Pony music.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Tekner on 2013 May 30, 18:39:03
Quote from: AlDeezy on 2013 May 30, 18:32:24
A semi-topical selfish question here- Why was this thread (http://forum.legendsofequestria.com/index.php?topic=7296.0) made the day after the explanation behind SweBow's removal? Just 'cuz it was funny? I personally was very hurt by it, along with a few other comments made by team members seemingly mocking the whole situation. Comments made in public. For some reason.
If we are to believe that LoE cares about its image and how its fans view how well the team works, why and how are these things in existence? I get that the work environment is to be really informal for the sake of progression (and because fun team is best team), but I can't help but question the current professional boundaries that are in place.
It's there for the same reason I made my comment that offended you. As said, we're over what happened and at the time we thought that lightening the situation and showing through humor that we're over it was the best way to "pave the way" to recovery. Obviously that didn't go over well, which prompted me to take the serious approach I did a few pages later in this thread.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Teal Turken on 2013 May 30, 18:45:54
Quote from: Teal Turken on 2013 May 30, 17:06:16
I don't feel like I can trust what the members say on this thread because many of their replies look like copy-pastes to me.

Quote
What exactly makes you think my responses aren't just copy paste? How can I be sure yours aren't? We can't all assume that the only honest people are yourself and others who agree with you. The team members are speaking with us, and discussing with us. Arguing for the sake of being right isn't the way to go about this topic. A lot of hostility is being thrown at the team, and they're not really throwing back. Instead of denying what they are trying to say, why not try to satisfy your curiosity as to what happened?

I already submitted that I'm just letting emotions speak for myself. >.<
Spoiler: This is kinda all this thread is. • show
(http://denver.mylittlefacewhen.com/media/f/img/mlfw7603-76e.gif)
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Rissian on 2013 May 30, 18:48:52
Hopefully this is all cleared up during the convention like mentioned many times before. We'll just have to wait and see if these facts mentioned about the game are true or not. I'm getting tired of debates...  :c

[ Invalid YouTube link ]

Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Tiger on 2013 May 31, 02:05:55
Hrrrrrrmmmmm

Screw it, SFM Derpy.

Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: CyanideInsanity on 2013 May 31, 05:38:07
Since the mascot, Ellowee, was brought up, I'd like to say that I find it ironic. Its an icon that appears, to me at least, to have, or is  developing, a personality. This notion, in my opinion, is contradictory of what I've grown to understand about this game.

From what I came to understand, its supposed to be about us; about all of us, as players of the game. Just my thoughts on the matter. Is it for bad or good? I couldn't tell you. I'm pretty much indifferent to the idea, just thinking about its irony.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Blues-Music on 2013 May 31, 14:43:18
Quote from: Albino on 2013 May 30, 16:34:14
Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 10:12:43
I'd also like to point out how many team members are straying away from this topic. We are constantly told they aren't straying away from anything , but the second people start talking about this they keep posting unrelated pictures , and videos thinking that would change the topic. So why not just stop running away , and come say something? I promise we won't bite.


I can't speak for the others, but the reason *I* am posting pony pictures is because this is supposed to be a place to have fun, not pour fuel on a fire.  >:/ If you want this place to get happier and more tolerant, BE happier and more tolerant. In other words, keep calm and pony on.

I was talking about some team members. Not you. Besides you (This applies to everyone who follows love , and tolerance) need to stop the whole "Act as weak as possible , and let people walk over you." thing. We know not to constantly start fights , but that doesn't mean we have to become doormats.

Now I'm going to go with Tiger on this one.

Screw it.

We ask for info , and reasons , and without answer. No proof that there has been any progress on the game. The whole Swebow , and Dandy thing show how unfair the team leaders are. I'm staying on the forums , but right now I hate most of the team (Not all. Tekner just because I argued with you doesn't mean I hate you. In fact i'm glad you gave us some information , or at least tried to.) I also barely care about the game. Right now I'm only here for the community.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Tekner on 2013 May 31, 15:07:49
Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 31, 14:43:18
We ask for info , and reasons , and without answer. No proof that there has been any progress on the game. The whole Swebow , and Dandy thing show how unfair the team leaders are. I'm staying on the forums , but right now I hate most of the team (Not all. Tekner just because I argued with you doesn't mean I hate you. In fact i'm glad you gave us some information , or at least tried to.) I also barely care about the game. Right now I'm only here for the community.
That's your choice. I'm sorry you don't like the answers we gave you, but we did answer everything you asked save for a few which will answer themselves in due time.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: Blues-Music on 2013 May 31, 15:33:09
Quote from: Tekner on 2013 May 31, 15:07:49
Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 31, 14:43:18
We ask for info , and reasons , and without answer. No proof that there has been any progress on the game. The whole Swebow , and Dandy thing show how unfair the team leaders are. I'm staying on the forums , but right now I hate most of the team (Not all. Tekner just because I argued with you doesn't mean I hate you. In fact i'm glad you gave us some information , or at least tried to.) I also barely care about the game. Right now I'm only here for the community.
That's your choice. I'm sorry you don't like the answers we gave you, but we did answer everything you asked save for a few which will answer themselves in due time.
Great. You're acting so polite it's making me feel bad.
Title: A thought for the Community
Post by: GalvinRoe on 2013 May 31, 19:49:35
   It's about time to make a plea to the community. Quite a bit has happened and the fact of the matter is: it happened. Something along these lines was bound to happen at one point or another, and as far as I'm concerned it will be one of the first real challenges towards the members on this forum.

Now it might and probably isn't the first or largest problem the TEAM has faced but that's far beyond the point. The point is, it's time for us to put our values to the test.

  The community here has been wonderful and caring, supportive and stimulating. We've also been argumentative, stubborn and irritable but we've always been able to tolerate and even respect others' opinions; recently the community has begun to dissolve it's core values, as several members have already pointed out in this thread. This was to be expected, the constant shifting of human behavior dictates that this would be challenged at one point or another, but because of it we have to make a choice.

  It's time for the community to take a more active role in upholding this morality ponies/bronies hold as the heart-stone for our community. The problem here isn't this one visible instance of dramatic tension, our problem is the survival of the values we've chosen to incorporate into each and every one of ourselves. Now we have to decide if we want to take a slightly more difficult road to uphold these standards: A touch more discipline in everything we do, a thought about every word we are saying. A more active role in this community, to share and care about thoughts coming from everyone else, even non-ponies.

This doesn't mean holding back your opinions, but it does mean thinking about them and giving those opinions of yours a chance to be wrong. After-all we are all 'wrong' at one part of the day or another and the beautiful thing about life is there are so many answers to various questions.

  Now, personally, I have never had any interest in this game, I've been here to learn and maybe even teach others here. Make friends and understand life through different eyes. But for those who DO care about the game, perhaps it's time to be more active in interacting with the team-members. At first, I'm sure, this will be a larger distraction then help, and those who move to be more active in that sense cannot expect to receive every single detail of information. But, as time goes on and a new system is established, I believe this to be the most efficient and inspiring move.

  With the assistance/guidance of the community this project could really become something. I'm not suggesting direct acceptance from team-members about every single person's opinions. I'm suggesting a more open attitude towards the community. Perhaps this disappearance of members didn't seem like much to the team but I do believe the details should have been announced immediately.  The fact is statements were made in the end and perhaps the team will be more forthcoming in the future, but if they are not, that is why the community is here.

  Now, I believe it is time to really help bring this community to it's golden age. I'll leave that thought with you, my friends. But I do hope you will join me, there is so much we could improve about ourselves and the community, I think it's time to start striving for it.
Title: Re: Regarding this tension in the air...
Post by: McSleuthburger on 2013 May 31, 22:09:21
ok now that mostly everything has been cleared up and answered
I'm going to lock this up
Any questions or concerns pm me
thanks
McSleuth