Pony science 2: The Reckoning

Started by NightWish, 2014 Aug 22, 15:39:30

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NightWish

2014 Aug 22, 15:39:30 Last Edit: 2014 Aug 22, 15:50:36 by NightWish
Yeah I thought the first thread was super fun, so I'ma try to revive it.

Lemme start by asking, how do you think the royal guard functions? It's canonical that Luna and Celestia have different military, Luna's being bat ponies and Celestia's being normal ponies.

I personally believe it's a holdover from the days of Luna's rebellion. Luna managed to win some followers to her cause, by convincing them that Celestia is feeding the population lies and propoganda.(Yes, they were the New Lunar Republic and Celestia's faction was the Solar Empire, though these terms have since been rendered obsolete by all but the most close-minded of ponies.)

She used her corrupted magic to turn them into a new race, the bat ponies, in order to have an advantage during the night time, when Celestia and her followers are more vulnerable. Even though this gave her a similar handicap, they were still better off, as now their leader could organize them during the same time as they were awake, whereas before she would be asleep during the day while they, being normal ponies, would be asleep during the night. The spell she cast to create the bat ponies was permanent however, and led to a new race being born. The bat ponies nowadays have no ill will towards Celestia at all; after all, it's been a thousand years of peace while Celestia was ruling. Though they still serve the Princess of the Night due to them being able to protect her during the night time, as their original role was meant to be.

Thoughts? Also, feel free to ask other questions! And remember: "Science is the art of explaining magic."

Post Merge


Also I'd just to like to say:

Quote from: The Wandering Magus on 2012 Mar 31, 11:25:37
Pegasus ponies have less obvious magic, but their focus points are clearly distributed throughout the wings.  Although their biology is generally optimized, their flight is actually predicated on their special magic aura, which creates an invisible aerodynamic shield around them and channels the wind.  This same shield is what allows them to walk on clouds or create storms and gale winds.  It is not only weather, but also to a certain extent gravity-based, and with careful training it is theoretically possible for pegasi to control gravity much as they control weather.


The bold part is now technically canonical. Remember when Twilight was battling Lord Tirek DBZ-style? When she got super p*ssed the rocks and stuff around her started floating upwards, defying gravity. This might just be alicorn magic, but I'm siding with the idea that this was brought on by her new pegasus magic.
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NightWish

*crickets chirping*

I dunno, I thought it would be a fun idea. o~o
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Night Pony

Well batponies are yet to be made cannon (no Fluttershy was a Vampire pony, that's different).
Many believe that the only ones we saw were costumes that were made to match Luna's entrance and her carriage.

However as far as I remember there was a tweet about batponies as a race that lived mainly in caves as real bats do. Hence Luna would recruit mainly from them due to the fact that she is most active at night the same time as they are.

I want to thank all of the artist that have drawn my OCs.
Night Shine and Moon Violet

NightWish

2014 Aug 31, 14:37:21 #3 Last Edit: 2014 Aug 31, 14:39:15 by NightWish
Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Aug 31, 14:34:29
Well batponies are yet to be made cannon (no Fluttershy was a Vampire pony, that's different).
Many believe that the only ones we saw were costumes that were made to match Luna's entrance and her carriage.

However as far as I remember there was a tweet about batponies as a race that lived mainly in caves as real bats do. Hence Luna would recruit mainly from them due to the fact that she is most active at night the same time as they are.

Hm? They've been in canon twice now, once in It's About Time(which disproves the bit about it being a costume) and once in Luna Eclipsed. And that's actually just a headcanon of Faust's, it isn't official or anything.

Not trying to be mean or anything, but that's just how I see it. xD; Sorry.
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Night Pony

It's about time is about solid sparkle?
But anyway Luna's eclipse cannot be used as proof due to it may being a costume. The episode with Fluttershy becoming a vampire also doesn't count due to her being a vampire. But if you want to argue that she's the same ok.
1. Fluttershy did not show any intelligence beyond of the animal. The guards pulling the carriage and acting as guards for a princess would require to be intelligent as a pony. Luna in no way would get animals to do jobs for her.
2. Fluttershy turning into a vampire was a fluke caused by magic. If (and a big IF) Luna made that with ponies and bats there should be a large number of bats behaving not like bats but there is yet to see such a thing.
3. Twilight Sparkle, an expert of magic, would've read about bat ponies and would not have been so surprised to see one. Plus she would've know how to fix it on the spot.

Also with risk of sounding mean, there was no Solar Empire nor a Lunar Republic. That's just pure fanfiction. Celestia is not the type to seed lies/distrust. Luna was banished as soon as she turned leaving no time for her to make a fation let alone make another race (which I doubt even she can do). And before you come out with "she made it before being turned", no. Celestia would've notice it and took measures she wouldn't turn evil.
Plus batponies and even Luna are depended from the sun whenever they like it or not. The sun is needed to grow food which is needed by all. So frankly they wouldn't be dumb enough to follow someone that will lead to their doom....unless they have animal intelligence, then they wouldn't follow anyone.

I want to thank all of the artist that have drawn my OCs.
Night Shine and Moon Violet

NightWish

Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Aug 31, 15:00:25
It's about time is about solid sparkle?
But anyway Luna's eclipse cannot be used as proof due to it may being a costume. The episode with Fluttershy becoming a vampire also doesn't count due to her being a vampire. But if you want to argue that she's the same ok.
1. Fluttershy did not show any intelligence beyond of the animal. The guards pulling the carriage and acting as guards for a princess would require to be intelligent as a pony. Luna in no way would get animals to do jobs for her.
2. Fluttershy turning into a vampire was a fluke caused by magic. If (and a big IF) Luna made that with ponies and bats there should be a large number of bats behaving not like bats but there is yet to see such a thing.
3. Twilight Sparkle, an expert of magic, would've read about bat ponies and would not have been so surprised to see one. Plus she would've know how to fix it on the spot.

Also with risk of sounding mean, there was no Solar Empire nor a Lunar Republic. That's just pure fanfiction. Celestia is not the type to seed lies/distrust. Luna was banished as soon as she turned leaving no time for her to make a fation let alone make another race (which I doubt even she can do). And before you come out with "she made it before being turned", no. Celestia would've notice it and took measures she wouldn't turn evil.
Plus batponies and even Luna are depended from the sun whenever they like it or not. The sun is needed to grow food which is needed by all. So frankly they wouldn't be dumb enough to follow someone that will lead to their doom....unless they have animal intelligence, then they wouldn't follow anyone.


Yeah, that's the ep I was talking about. While she was sneaking into the library there were two of them.

1 & 2) I know she wasn't a bat pony, which is why I didn't mention her.
3) When was she shown to be surprised? Also, they aren't evil anymore, so why would she "fix" it?

Yeah, I know NLR and SE are fanfiction stuff, but I still incorporate them into my headcanon just for giggles. Also, the lies and deceit thing was just a ruse that Luna created in order to gain followers. It wasn't true at all. Simply because she hadn't turned yet doesn't mean she hadn't already started rebelling. And I doubt that the laws about food and stuff apply to Equestria, since earth ponies are the ones who maintain crops and stuff, but even if it wasn't I doubt Luna was thinking clearly in the first place. If she were to gain minions they'd likely be just as ignorant about it.
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Night Pony

I don't remember any batponies in that episode.

3) I'm not gonna go back to the episode to bring up certain reactions. The fruit bats weren't evil but that didn't stop AJ from wanting them gone. Many things aren't evil, doesn't mean they shouldn't be dealt with.

As I said, If that was true then Celestia would know something is up and would've done about it. The turning wouldn't be so sudden and surprising if Luna went and seeded lies. Also that's not NNM's style and the shadowy figures that turned her in the first place. They were overconfident that they could take Celestia head on and win. Also nobody would follow her to the reason that without the sun, there would be no food. Also the food works the same way as Earth. Plants needs water and sunlight to live. The farmers (earth ponies) just maintain that process (like watering the plants, removing weed). But they cannot replace the sun which would lead to dying of the crops. Lauren has said so (she made season 1 where this happen so she had direct involvement).

I want to thank all of the artist that have drawn my OCs.
Night Shine and Moon Violet

NightWish

Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Sep 01, 04:25:09
I don't remember any batponies in that episode.

It as as she was sneaking into the castle. They had the same eyes, as well as the armor. I can't find an image of the pegasus in there, but the unicorn is on google images somewhere. But I'm too lazy to go get it. xD;

Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Sep 01, 04:25:09
3) I'm not gonna go back to the episode to bring up certain reactions. The fruit bats weren't evil but that didn't stop AJ from wanting them gone. Many things aren't evil, doesn't mean they shouldn't be dealt with.

Well then what's the reasoning in getting rid of batponies? It's not like they're harming anything.

Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Sep 01, 04:25:09
As I said, If that was true then Celestia would know something is up and would've done about it. The turning wouldn't be so sudden and surprising if Luna went and seeded lies. Also that's not NNM's style and the shadowy figures that turned her in the first place. They were overconfident that they could take Celestia head on and win. Also nobody would follow her to the reason that without the sun, there would be no food. Also the food works the same way as Earth. Plants needs water and sunlight to live. The farmers (earth ponies) just maintain that process (like watering the plants, removing weed). But they cannot replace the sun which would lead to dying of the crops. Lauren has said so (she made season 1 where this happen so she had direct involvement).

It's also been confirmed through the comics that those moon thingies first seduce her into that dark mindset before possessing. And no it's not NMM's style, but it could very well be Luna's before becoming NMM. And even if not, she was being coerced by the moon ghost thingies, so she could possibly have been taking their advice on what to do.

And again, in my headcanon the sun isn't necessary for it.(I don't think it's been confirmed through canon whether or not it is, only that earth ponies take care of it.) Even if not though, in my headcanon Luna didn't think that through either since she wasn't in the right mindset. And then there would undoubtedly be those who had been coerced through Luna's false propaganda that bringing down Celestia would be more important, and then they'd figure out how to grow crops.

Yes I know I'm stretching things. Sorry, but this headcanon's too fun to fail. xD; Besides, isn't this type of thing for fun anyway?
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Night Pony

QuoteWell then what's the reasoning in getting rid of batponies? It's not like they're harming anything.


Define batponies. The costume ones pulling Luna's carriage? There's doubt that they are even real.
Flutterbat? She was a vampire fruit pony, and the reason to get rid of her was the same as the bats - they were a menace. The parasprites never harmed anyone in ponyville but they got rid of them.

QuoteIt's also been confirmed through the comics that those moon thingies first seduce her into that dark mindset before possessing. And no it's not NMM's style, but it could very well be Luna's before becoming NMM. And even if not, she was being coerced by the moon ghost thingies, so she could possibly have been taking their advice on what to do.


In the comics Rarity became Nightmare Rarity the moment she gave in to them and I believe the same was for Luna. So she didn't turned before her transformation. At best she had some grief that they took advantage of. Otherwise as I said, it wouldn't be nearly as surprising for Celestia as it's described.
Also isn't the followers part of the reason she turned? The 'not appreciate my night' part. In that case why would she want anyone from them to follow her? Why would she want any followers when she can take out the sole reason for her grief no problem (Celestia). Also in the comic, the creatures provided well enough for an army rendering which makes any gathering of followers useless.

QuoteAnd again, in my headcanon the sun isn't necessary for it.(I don't think it's been confirmed through canon whether or not it is, only that earth ponies take care of it.) Even if not though, in my headcanon Luna didn't think that through either since she wasn't in the right mindset. And then there would undoubtedly be those who had been coerced through Luna's false propaganda that bringing down Celestia would be more important, and then they'd figure out how to grow crops.


Then your headcannon is against cannon overall. If sun wasn't needed then Celestia wouldn't be forced to banish Luna to the moon because the whole reason she did that was because her ponies were at danger. And no I do not think she meant from physical danger Luna may do.

I want to thank all of the artist that have drawn my OCs.
Night Shine and Moon Violet

NightWish

Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Sep 02, 04:00:04
Define batponies. The costume ones pulling Luna's carriage? There's doubt that they are even real.
Flutterbat? She was a vampire fruit pony, and the reason to get rid of her was the same as the bats - they were a menace. The parasprites never harmed anyone in ponyville but they got rid of them.

Well I have just provided an example of proof that they are not just costumes. Also I know Flutterbat wasn't a bat pony, as I've said. xD;

Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Sep 02, 04:00:04
In the comics Rarity became Nightmare Rarity the moment she gave in to them and I believe the same was for Luna. So she didn't turned before her transformation. At best she had some grief that they took advantage of. Otherwise as I said, it wouldn't be nearly as surprising for Celestia as it's described.

I guess I should've explained better, but I believe Luna hadn't fully given in until she turned into NMM. Up to that point she wasn't completely agreeing with them, but rather, she was begrudgingly admitting to some of what they were saying. It was a gradual type of influence, until the culmination that turned her into NMM.

Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Sep 02, 04:00:04
Also isn't the followers part of the reason she turned? The 'not appreciate my night' part. In that case why would she want anyone from them to follow her? Why would she want any followers when she can take out the sole reason for her grief no problem (Celestia). Also in the comic, the creatures provided well enough for an army rendering which makes any gathering of followers useless.

Gathering followers was her way of attaining the respect she thought she was denied. And as I stated right above, she wasn't under their total control until she was NMM.

Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Sep 02, 04:00:04
Then your headcannon is against cannon overall. If sun wasn't needed then Celestia wouldn't be forced to banish Luna to the moon because the whole reason she did that was because her ponies were at danger. And no I do not think she meant from physical danger Luna may do.

Actually I believe it has been confirmed since Bridle Gossip, wherein Applejack and Rainbow Dash mention that the plants grow on their own without pony intervention, implying that earth ponies are necessary for plants to live anywhere else in Equestria. And I'm not arguing the point that Celestia sent Luna to the moon for the protection of the citizens, because that's definitely true, but rather I'm talking about Luna's motives throughout the ordeal.

I really don't want to argue about this anymore, can we move on?
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Night Pony

QuoteWell I have just provided an example of proof that they are not just costumes. Also I know Flutterbat wasn't a bat pony, as I've said. xD;


You proved nothing. Just recalled something that I don't think confirms anything.

QuoteI guess I should've explained better, but I believe Luna hadn't fully given in until she turned into NMM. Up to that point she wasn't completely agreeing with them, but rather, she was begrudgingly admitting to some of what they were saying. It was a gradual type of influence, until the culmination that turned her into NMM.

QuoteGathering followers was her way of attaining the respect she thought she was denied. And as I stated right above, she wasn't under their total control until she was NMM.


Not gonna argue with headcannon.

QuoteActually I believe it has been confirmed since Bridle Gossip, wherein Applejack and Rainbow Dash mention that the plants grow on their own without pony intervention, implying that earth ponies are necessary for plants to live anywhere else in Equestria. And I'm not arguing the point that Celestia sent Luna to the moon for the protection of the citizens, because that's definitely true, but rather I'm talking about Luna's motives throughout the ordeal.


I don't get your point.

QuoteI really don't want to argue about this anymore, can we move on?


I thought you started the thread for discussion/arguing? Or am I wrong?

I want to thank all of the artist that have drawn my OCs.
Night Shine and Moon Violet

NightWish

Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Sep 02, 12:04:12
You proved nothing. Just recalled something that I don't think confirms anything.

Why would they be wearing Halloween costumes when it's not Halloween?...

Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Sep 02, 12:04:12
Not gonna argue with headcannon.

You've done it several times already. xD;

Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Sep 02, 12:04:12
I don't get your point.

Point being, earth ponies grow the plants. Without them, they would die. Ergo, the sun makes no difference to them in most of Equestria.

Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Sep 02, 12:04:12
I thought you started the thread for discussion/arguing? Or am I wrong?

I made it for discussion. I might just be sensitive about this, but I feel more like I'm getting attacked for it. o~o You're probably not meaning to, but it sounds like you're calling me daft or something. Sorry.
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Night Pony

QuoteWhy would they be wearing Halloween costumes when it's not Halloween?...


I have yet to see a batpony outside Luna's eclipse.

QuoteYou've done it several times already. xD;


Then I shall rephrase. Not gonna argue the same points.

QuotePoint being, earth ponies grow the plants. Without them, they would die. Ergo, the sun makes no difference to them in most of Equestria.


The princess has the power of earth ponies, she could intervene if necessary in my opinion.
Also that's your opinion and not gonna argue anymore with that.

Quoteut I feel more like I'm getting attacked for it. o~o You're probably not meaning to, but it sounds like you're calling me daft or something


Hence discussions are often locked down and never brought up here.

EDIT: Feel free to lock this thread then.

I want to thank all of the artist that have drawn my OCs.
Night Shine and Moon Violet

AaronMk

Let's all just admit this is what the ponies are working on secretly:



Because Goldenblood is canon.


#DeposeGothsFromRomanClay

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