[Treaty] Herds of Equestria

[Blues-Music]

@Blues

You see war only through the veil of the war of today. You do not see what lies underneath - the values upheld by the war of the old days.

If they call me a monster then so be it, but I shall not duel them unless they require it or else they agree to my challenge.
If my enemy drops his blade, I shall let him pick it up before continuing. If my brother drops his bread, I shall give mine to him.
Alliances are tricky, but they inspire boundaries I respect. My issue is with my enemy, not his friend. I shall not attack an outsider unless they attack me.
I help others without payment. If I do not even seek reward, why would I deem charity a prize I am worthy of?
It is great to test your metal with another, but if they do not wish to fight I shall not fight them - as long as they have not done wrong to others.

You do not know of which you speak. You do not speak of war, only of ENVY. I may be a warrior but I am noble. If I see war as a virtue, then to be virtuous is my path. Envy is not virtuous and most of all it is not honorable. A soldier may be filled with envy but no warrior would ever be consumed by it. There are rules to proper war just as there are codes of chivalry.

The world's lack of honor is not due to our killing it, but rather our refusal to uphold and inspire it. Do not judge war by the skirmishes you see today, just as one does not judge a book by its cover.

Where do you live?No not in location ,but in time.
War was for honor a long time ago now its just oh look they got land better kill them ,and blame it on them by accusing them of plotting against us.

[Dr. Krest]

I do not in any way condone the wars that happen on Earth in the present day. They are fought by soldiers but NOT warriors. They lack honor completely.

Yet Equestria can be different. Just as in some MMORPGs, wars between guilds can be quite civil and, thus, harmonic. I may not be able to fight in the wars on Earth because of my principles, but in return I can fight proper war in games.

[The Wandering Magus]

Thr wars of the past are equally as ruthless and discordian as the wars of the present.  Sun Tsu encouraged the use of spies and ruthless military efficiency to win wars.  The samurai killed pesants who insulted them in any way.  Knights fought over serfs and enslaved the poor to feed the rich.  The tribes of Africa enslaved one another and even ate one another.  The Romans obliterated the weak.  The Israelites genocided the Canaanites.  Egypt enslaved its own people in war.  Assyria tore down temples and raped, pillaged and burned.  Vlad impaled his enemies.  Ghenghis utterly wiped out Baghdad to the last child because they did not give him money.

The honorable warrior, the righteous knight, is a myth.  It never existed.  It cannot exist.  War is hell.  It has always been hell.

Sun Tsu once said, "In war, for an army of ine thousand four-horse swift chariots, one thousand hide-armored wagons, for one hundred thousand mail-clad warriors, with provisions for four hundred miles, allowing for expenses at home and at the front, dealings with envoys and advisers, glue and lacqyer, repairs to chariots and armor, the daily cost of all this will exceed one hundred taels of silver."

Sun Tsu once said, "No nation has ever benefitted from a protracted war.  Without full understanding of the harm caused by war, it is impossible to understand the most profitable way of conducting it."

Sun Tsu once said, "supplyinf an army at a distance drains the public coffers and impoverishes the common people.  Where an army is close at hand, prices rise.  Where prices rise, the common people spend all they have.  When they have spent all they have, they suffer from taxes and levies."

Sun Tsu once said, "Strength is depleted on the battlefield; families at home are destitute.  The common people lose seven-tenths of their wealth.  Six-tenths of the public coffers are spent on broken chariots, worn-out horses, armor and helmets, crossbows and arrows, spears and bucklers, lances and shields, draft animals, heavy wagons."






So i ask you, Dr. Krest: how is war harmonious?

[Dr. Krest]

Sun Tsu quotes, really? You do know that nearly all actions by warlords in the past were recorded as dramatized versions of what really happened because of the fear the authors had of those people, right? Even Attila the Hun was extremely civil, dining with royal families all the time...

I understand that there were spies and assassins and all of that. There must always be both order and chaos, discord and harmony, just as there must always be both war and peace. But there's a difference between controlled order and chaos and uncontrolled order and chaos. When corruption becomes the backbone of either order or chaos, they are not controlled.

Assassinations, pillaging, genocide... When done through cold hard calculations, actions of chaos are controlled. I may not condone them but they are atleast different from today. Today we do not use absolute tactics, we use fear and terror. That's all we use. We blow up Japan in order to scare the crud out of them instead of honorably fighting to the last man. We decide to send in mechs to destroy our enemies instead of keeping the human versus human war.

There is a MAJOR difference between the wars of yesterday and today.

Lastly, slavery and the other things your mentioned are Spoils of War. I'm talking about what happens in the war itself, not the rewards of it.

[The Wandering Magus]

Sun Tsu quotes, really? You do know that nearly all actions by warlords in the past were recorded as dramatized versions of what really happened because of the fear the authors had of those people, right? Even Attila the Hun was extremely civil, dining with royal families all the time...

I understand that there were spies and assassins and all of that. There must always be both order and chaos, discord and harmony, just as there must always be both war and peace. But there's a difference between controlled order and chaos and uncontrolled order and chaos. When corruption becomes the backbone of either order or chaos, they are not controlled.

Assassinations, pillaging, genocide... When done through cold hard calculations, actions of chaos are controlled. I may not condone them but they are atleast different from today. Today we do not use absolute tactics, we use fear and terror. That's all we use. We blow up Japan in order to scare the crud out of them instead of honorably fighting to the last man. We decide to send in mechs to destroy our enemies instead of keeping the human versus human war.

There is a MAJOR difference between the wars of yesterday and today.

Lastly, slavery and the other things your mentioned are Spoils of War. I'm talking about what happens in the war itself, not the rewards of it.

if all history is myth, then i suppose there is nothing to discuss then; all we can do is hold warring opinions, if there is no reliable records.

But there ARE reliable records.  And they all agree that the battlefield of the past was NOT the glamorous "honor" duels you mention, but a killing ground staking brother against brother to stab each other in the back and kick the sword away.

Englishmen invented their rude gesture for a reason, you know.  And a hail of arrows you have no defense against sure doesn't seem "honorable".  Nor does TORTURING, not honorably killing, the enemy.

Cold hard calculations? How about a little cocoa leaf to make you insane as you scream bloody murder and kill yourself on the enemy's spears? Or other poisons to make you wild and uncontrolled as you raid the defenseless towns along the coast, "brave warrior" that you are?  Go send a thousand serfs to fight the lord next door because his land looks greener.

Steal the next tribe's horses for fun and profit.  Genocide the "infidels" in the name of god.  Pillage the city in the name of "liberating" a single rock from the "pagans".

Go to war because they are catholic and not protestant.

Go to war because their great grandfather insulted yours.

Go to war because you can.

Do those seem honorable or harmonious to you? To fight in the name of intolerance for somebody else's religion or skin color? To fight because you hate them?

Cruelty, betrayal, deceit, greed, despair, hatred, are these not the OPPOSITE of harmony?

[Crystal Chaos]

Sun Tsu quotes, really? You do know that nearly all actions by warlords in the past were recorded as dramatized versions of what really happened because of the fear the authors had of those people, right? Even Attila the Hun was extremely civil, dining with royal families all the time...

I understand that there were spies and assassins and all of that. There must always be both order and chaos, discord and harmony, just as there must always be both war and peace. But there's a difference between controlled order and chaos and uncontrolled order and chaos. When corruption becomes the backbone of either order or chaos, they are not controlled.

Assassinations, pillaging, genocide... When done through cold hard calculations, actions of chaos are controlled. I may not condone them but they are atleast different from today. Today we do not use absolute tactics, we use fear and terror. That's all we use. We blow up Japan in order to scare the crud out of them instead of honorably fighting to the last man. We decide to send in mechs to destroy our enemies instead of keeping the human versus human war.

There is a MAJOR difference between the wars of yesterday and today.

Lastly, slavery and the other things your mentioned are Spoils of War. I'm talking about what happens in the war itself, not the rewards of it.

if all history is myth, then i suppose there is nothing to discuss then; all we can do is hold warring opinions, if there is no reliable records.

But there ARE reliable records.  And they all agree that the battlefield of the past was NOT the glamorous "honor" duels you mention, but a killing ground staking brother against brother to stab each other in the back and kick the sword away.

Englishmen invented their rude gesture for a reason, you know.  And a hail of arrows you have no defense against sure doesn't seem "honorable".  Nor does TORTURING, not honorably killing, the enemy.

Cold hard calculations? How about a little cocoa leaf to make you insane as you scream bloody murder and kill yourself on the enemy's spears? Or other poisons to make you wild and uncontrolled as you raid the defenseless towns along the coast, "brave warrior" that you are?  Go send a thousand serfs to fight the lord next door because his land looks greener.

Steal the next tribe's horses for fun and profit.  Genocide the "infidels" in the name of god.  Pillage the city in the name of "liberating" a single rock from the "pagans".

Go to war because they are catholic and not protestant.

Go to war because their great grandfather insulted yours.

Go to war because you can.

Do those seem honorable or harmonious to you? To fight in the name of intolerance for somebody else's religion or skin color? To fight because you hate them?

Cruelty, betrayal, deceit, greed, despair, hatred, are these not the OPPOSITE of harmony?

*Sits back to watch the flame-war*

[Dr. Krest]

*Sits back to watch the flame-war*

*sigh* I do not wish to have a true argument. I understand where you're coming from, but you're only seeing war through one side of the spectrum. It's like how the Wizard of Oz was before his true face was unveiled. I believe there is beauty in everything, even war. It helps humanity CHANGE either for better or worse, it advances civilization as people learn from it, and most of all it tests the strengths of mankind. Peace also has an ugly face, and war also has a beautiful one. There's a reason why there were gods of love AND war, and even why Mars was with Venus. It's all symbolic but true.

If we have to agree to disagree, then so be it. However, I'd like to see the strength and determination of other guilds, not just how many members they have or how much gold they're carrying.

[The Wandering Magus]

*Sits back to watch the flame-war*

*sigh* I do not wish to have a true argument. I understand where you're coming from, but you're only seeing war through one side of the spectrum. It's like how the Wizard of Oz was before his true face was unveiled. I believe there is beauty in everything, even war. It helps humanity CHANGE either for better or worse, it advances civilization as people learn from it, and most of all it tests the strengths of mankind. Peace also has an ugly face, and war also has a beautiful one. There's a reason why there were gods of love AND war, and even why Mars was with Venus. It's all symbolic but true.

If we have to agree to disagree, then so be it. However, I'd like to see the strength and determination of other guilds, not just how many members they have or how much gold they're carrying.

I suppose the reason we disagree is because of my background...

My mother and her family were in China during the Revolution.  My maternal grandmother had to witness her best friends ... Treated... Poorly by the invading Japanese armies.

I hate war.  I hate these pointless fights that do nothing but hurt the innocent.  I hate the murderers who take pride in killing and brutalizing defenseless villagers in Taishan, the raiders of Nanking, the Red Guard who nearly took my grandfather away and caused him to die an early death.

I HATE IT.

...sorry, I get a little emotional about that sometimes.  But, I suppose as a bystander, war certainly seems "glamorous".  Yeah, lots of glory.  Hail the conquerers, whee.  War destroys.  It ravages.  It tears families apart, makes orphans and widows of innocents.

Can't we all just get along?

[Dr. Krest]

So then when you see barbarians, you ignore the knights? When you see the villains, you ignore the heroes? I am not in any way a bystander. I understand what you're going through. However, being on the side of those hurt by war blinds your judgment. Because war gave you a bad experience, you completely ignore any merit it may have. Like I said before - I don't condone the wars of today. I condone honor, but not terror. I condone swords, but not guns. I understand what you've gone through, but while you simply stand in the shadows and weep over what happened others that had the same exact experience as you did are getting vengeance for the innocents that were killed.

I respect my enemy if they follow their principles. When one simply takes orders without thinking about the consequences, they are known as soldiers. But when one fights for their own beliefs instead of others', they become warriors. Warriors follow their principles.

When fools wage war, they make war foolish. When heroes wage war, they make war heroic.

[The Wandering Magus]

So then when you see barbarians, you ignore the knights? When you see the villains, you ignore the heroes? I am not in any way a bystander. I understand what you're going through. However, being on the side of those hurt by war blinds your judgment. Because war gave you a bad experience, you completely ignore any merit it may have. Like I said before - I don't condone the wars of today. I condone honor, but not terror. I condone swords, but not guns. I understand what you've gone through, but while you simply stand in the shadows and weep over what happened others that had the same exact experience as you did are getting vengeance for the innocents that were killed.

I respect my enemy if they follow their principles. When one simply takes orders without thinking about the consequences, they are known as soldiers. But when one fights for their own beliefs instead of others', they become warriors. Warriors follow their principles.

When fools wage war, they make war foolish. When heroes wage war, they make war heroic.

one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

To die in war against the enemies of god is glorious?

To die in war against the enemies of the Emperor is glorious?

They actually believe that, you know.

Vengeance? A cycle of hate, perpetuating through the ages.  One killing another after another.  "You killed my father, so i shall kill you" "my son shall kill you for killing me"

Heroes? Find me a hero who did not kill a mother's son, a daughter's father, a wife's husband, a beloved's true love.  Find me a hero without the blood of others on his hands.

Heroes are victors who write their own history.

Abraham Lincoln? A tyrant who ignored the constitution and bill of rights and sent millions of mother's beloved children to die.

King Charlemagne? The crusaders? The glorious knights? Religious fanatics who killed people for their beliefs in the name of their god.

All fighting for what they believed to be right.  All acting according to their "prinicples"

[Dr. Krest]

All fighting for what they believed to be right.  All acting according to their "prinicples"

Aye, but that's their merit. I guess in the eyes of someone who's not a warrior, you couldn't comprehend it. Their ability to fight for what they believe in, no matter what it may be, is their greatest strength. That strength is what leads them to create and leave a legacy of their existence, their mark upon the world. It's what allows them to go down in history. It's those warriors that other races look down at humanity and say, "They are astounding, amazing, and strong. Though most of them are weak, there are kings amongst them."

I may not like what people like Hitler did, but I have the urge to face him alone in battle. I recognize the strength he had. I wish to test myself against him, to clash steel and fighting spirit.

Soldiers die so that they may fight, fight so that they may live, and live so that they may die.

Warriors live so that they may fight, fight so that they may die, and die so that they may live.

You are a peacemonger, I am a warmonger. You wish to live in a frozen everlasting peace, I wish to fight to the death in one magnificent heated moment. I fight for my beliefs as my enemy fights for his. I may fight simply to fight or even for love, vengeance, or peace. But I fight. That is my nature, and I find it beautiful.

I understand that you may be different, but I'd rather you not insult the warriors that died fighting for what they personally believed in.

[Solid_Scarth]

War has changed. It's no longer about nations, ideologies or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles, fought by mercenaries and machines. War, and its consumption of life, has become a well-oiled machine. War has changed. ID tagged soldiers carry ID tagged weapons, use ID tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities. Genetic control. Information control. Emotion control. Battlefield control. Everything is monitored, and kept under control. War has changed. The age of deterrence has become the age of control. All in the name of averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield, controls history. War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control, war... becomes routine.

[Mr.Darkling]

When fools wage war, they make war foolish. When heroes wage war, they make war heroic.

When people wage war, people die.

There's honestly nothing more to it. There's nothing harmonious about it.

Also Section one, rule 8 of the forums.

[Ozzy]

War has changed. It's no longer about nations, ideologies or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles, fought by mercenaries and machines. War, and its consumption of life, has become a well-oiled machine. War has changed. ID tagged soldiers carry ID tagged weapons, use ID tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities. Genetic control. Information control. Emotion control. Battlefield control. Everything is monitored, and kept under control. War has changed. The age of deterrence has become the age of control. All in the name of averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield, controls history. War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control, war... becomes routine.

*Bleep bleep...bleep bleep*

...Snake...what're you doin'..?

[Solid_Scarth]

War has changed. It's no longer about nations, ideologies or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles, fought by mercenaries and machines. War, and its consumption of life, has become a well-oiled machine. War has changed. ID tagged soldiers carry ID tagged weapons, use ID tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities. Genetic control. Information control. Emotion control. Battlefield control. Everything is monitored, and kept under control. War has changed. The age of deterrence has become the age of control. All in the name of averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield, controls history. War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control, war... becomes routine.

*Bleep bleep...bleep bleep*

...Snake...what're you doin'..?

I'm in a box...

[Ozzy]

War has changed. It's no longer about nations, ideologies or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles, fought by mercenaries and machines. War, and its consumption of life, has become a well-oiled machine. War has changed. ID tagged soldiers carry ID tagged weapons, use ID tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities. Genetic control. Information control. Emotion control. Battlefield control. Everything is monitored, and kept under control. War has changed. The age of deterrence has become the age of control. All in the name of averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield, controls history. War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control, war... becomes routine.

*Bleep bleep...bleep bleep*

...Snake...what're you doin'..?

I'm in a box...

A cardboard box? Why're you...

[Solid_Scarth]

War has changed. It's no longer about nations, ideologies or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles, fought by mercenaries and machines. War, and its consumption of life, has become a well-oiled machine. War has changed. ID tagged soldiers carry ID tagged weapons, use ID tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities. Genetic control. Information control. Emotion control. Battlefield control. Everything is monitored, and kept under control. War has changed. The age of deterrence has become the age of control. All in the name of averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield, controls history. War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control, war... becomes routine.

*Bleep bleep...bleep bleep*

...Snake...what're you doin'..?

I'm in a box...

A cardboard box? Why're you...

I dunno. I was just looking at it and I suddenly got this urge to get inside. No, not just an urge--more than that. It was my destiny to be here; in the box.

[Ozzy]

War has changed. It's no longer about nations, ideologies or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles, fought by mercenaries and machines. War, and its consumption of life, has become a well-oiled machine. War has changed. ID tagged soldiers carry ID tagged weapons, use ID tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities. Genetic control. Information control. Emotion control. Battlefield control. Everything is monitored, and kept under control. War has changed. The age of deterrence has become the age of control. All in the name of averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield, controls history. War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control, war... becomes routine.

*Bleep bleep...bleep bleep*

...Snake...what're you doin'..?

I'm in a box...

A cardboard box? Why're you...

I dunno. I was just looking at it and I suddenly got this urge to get inside. No, not just an urge--more than that. It was my destiny to be here; in the box.

Destiny...?

[Solid_Scarth]

War has changed. It's no longer about nations, ideologies or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles, fought by mercenaries and machines. War, and its consumption of life, has become a well-oiled machine. War has changed. ID tagged soldiers carry ID tagged weapons, use ID tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities. Genetic control. Information control. Emotion control. Battlefield control. Everything is monitored, and kept under control. War has changed. The age of deterrence has become the age of control. All in the name of averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield, controls history. War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control, war... becomes routine.

*Bleep bleep...bleep bleep*

...Snake...what're you doin'..?

I'm in a box...

A cardboard box? Why're you...

I dunno. I was just looking at it and I suddenly got this urge to get inside. No, not just an urge--more than that. It was my destiny to be here; in the box.

Destiny...?

Yeah. And then when I put it on, I suddenly got this feeling of inner peace. I can't put it into words. I feel... safe. Like this is where I was meant to be. Like I'd found the key to true happiness. Does any of that make sense?

[Dr. Krest]

Also Section one, rule 8 of the forums.

I'm aware of that rule. I made sure that my posts did not stray into any of those three extremes.