Now Alicorns were thought to be immortal ,but there facial looks of age are really the only trait about them (I am well aware that most know that I'm just starting the discussion) I mean take it like a research to help other alicorns (Yes even colts now stop asking me)
If there is already one then I apologize
Side Note: If your going to post about yourself here well thats what this is for: http://forum.legendsofequestria.com/index.php?board=5.0
(http://th07.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2013/349/2/5/alicorn_family_photo__mare_version__by_90sigma-d6y0jr7.png)
(Yes I know it may be too large)
And yes I'm serious
So what's the point of this discussion?
One trait that Alicorns have (that nobody ever talks about) is the fact that they have Earth Pony Hooves.
Unicorn Horn. Pegasi Wings. Earth Pony Hooves...
the latter always gets ignored even though those hooves have magical properties too :(
At least that's what old posts by Lauren Faust said, iirc.
Lauren Faust does not work on the show anymore.
Everypony have hooves like an earth pony. They aren't distinguishable by appearance unlike wings/horns. So they may or may not have such power. They were never seen demonstrating it.
Edit:
Also I think it would be more correct if it's an alicorn horn or just horn. Saying that it's a unicorn horn implies that their magic is the same as a unicorn, which is not.
Earth Pony magic seems to get passed over in general I think since it seems to be an even more passive form of magic than Pegasus weather magic, but I do think it is still there even if we may not actually notice it's there. Also, I don't think it's the appearance of Earth Pony hooves that actually makes them earth pony hooves, but rather the innate magic that Earth Ponies possess that is generally utilized through their hooves. Much in the way that a Unicorn channels their magic through their horn, or Pegasus magic is primarily utilized through their wings.
Alicorns posses the three defining traits of each of the other Pony races. They channel magic through a horn in the same way that Unicorns do (a defining feature of Unicorns which I think was what was meant by having a Unicorn Horn) and they achieve flight like the Pegasi through their wings including the weather abilities that come with (though training for both is required). They also are said to possess the fortitude of an Earth Pony as well as their connection to the earth. However, since we've only seen the Alicorns in the show use magic and flight abilities it's easy to see why their Earth Pony features would be a bit muddled as we've never actually seen anything beyond the extra fortitude.
Some believe that Queen Chrysalis was a former Alicorn and due to the fact she afterwords became the queen for the changeling kind. Due to the amount of power she carries I believe it could have been possible
(http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130421163906/mlpfanart/images/8/8b/Chrysalis_Alicorn.jpeg)
That would imply that the changelings aren't a separate race but corrupted and probably heavily modified normal ponies.
P.S. That is if you consider their wings comparable to pegasi/alicorn wings. Rarity also had wings and a horn but you don't see anybody saying she was an alicorn.
Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Jul 26, 13:44:44
That would imply that the changelings aren't a separate race but corrupted and probably heavily modified normal ponies.
P.S. That is if you consider their wings comparable to pegasi/alicorn wings. Rarity also had wings and a horn but you don't see anybody saying she was an alicorn.
Changlings could be mutated ponies that have become a new race considering we don't know much about them.
It's not the physical traits that make alicorns what they are it's their magic. Rarity had unicorn magic and spell made wings (not even made by her magic). The show also states that alicorn magic is much more powerful than regular magic implying by having greater magic you become an alicorn. So what if the physical traits come after? By becoming more powerful you gain the traits to go with it.
Quote from: Runzi333 on 2014 Jul 27, 13:11:08
Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Jul 26, 13:44:44
That would imply that the changelings aren't a separate race but corrupted and probably heavily modified normal ponies.
P.S. That is if you consider their wings comparable to pegasi/alicorn wings. Rarity also had wings and a horn but you don't see anybody saying she was an alicorn.
Changlings could be mutated ponies that have become a new race considering we don't know much about them.
It's not the physical traits that make alicorns what they are it's their magic. Rarity had unicorn magic and spell made wings (not even made by her magic). The show also states that alicorn magic is much more powerful than regular magic implying by having greater magic you become an alicorn. So what if the physical traits come after? By becoming more powerful you gain the traits to go with it.
That would imply that:
1. Every unicorn can become an alicorn if they advance enough (which isn't the case).
2. Only unicorns can become alicorns (which also isn't the case).
Twilight had unicorn power but then she gained wings and suddenly she is an alicorn, while Rarity gained wings but wasn't an alicorn.
Cadance was a pegasus who became an alicorn, so it implies that it's not just advanced magic that lets ponies be an alicorn.
since when did Rarity get wings? o.O
Season 1 episode 16, Sonic Rainboom. Rarity gets a pair of butterfly-styled wings for a good portion of the episode, but they burned up near the end.
And yeah, I don't think magic power has much to do with non-Alicorns becoming Alicorns. Twilight became an Alicorn because she finished a spell that literally reshaped the destinies of her friends, and Cadence became an Alicorn because she was able to bring love to one who was incapable of feeling it (at least I think that's how it went, haven't actually read the book just clips from it).
Based on that, I think they were trying to convey that non-Alicorns can become Alicorns by achieving a feat that no other pony could match. I'm sure an Earth Pony could become an Alicorn as well if they succeeded in a similar feat. Of course Celestia and Luna are another matter entirely since I think they were intended to have always been Alicorns from what I've been able to find, and if one takes the Journal of the Two Sisters into account there are apparently entire societies of natural-born Alicorns out there.
Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Jul 26, 07:11:56
Lauren Faust does not work on the show anymore.
Everypony have hooves like an earth pony. They aren't distinguishable by appearance unlike wings/horns. So they may or may not have such power. They were never seen demonstrating it.
Edit:
Also I think it would be more correct if it's an alicorn horn or just horn. Saying that it's a unicorn horn implies that their magic is the same as a unicorn, which is not.
Sit down my child and I shall tell you a story of MLP:FiM, before the fandom came to be and before it aired those three, long, years ago. *sits down and "smokes" with a pipe that blows bubbles*
You see, when the show was fixing to air on the Hub, Hasbro's site was steadily becoming more Ponified. There were flash games that gave you a vague idea of what the show would look like, and there were even teasers that showed off each of the main characters, including Princess Celestia. Neither "Luna" nor "Nightmare Moon" were even hinted at actually existing, which is why the Celestia video made it sound as though she were the only Alicorn in existence.
The reason why I bring this up is so you can have context for this video before going into it:
Note the "unicorn horn" and "Pegasi wings" :P
I'm not trying to imply that Alicorn Magic is the same as Unicorn magic, but I am saying that
the anatomy of their horns are virtually the same.
There's also this little quote from Lauren Faust, which was written (http://msmagazine.com/blog/2010/12/24/my-little-non-homophobic-non-racist-non-smart-shaming-pony-a-rebuttal/) around the same time.
QuoteThe only races in My Little Pony are Earth Pony, Pegasus and Unicorn, and they are all treated equally, ruled by a leader who embodies the traits of all three
Speaking of Anatomy; you're saying that Earth ponies have the same kind of hooves that everyone else has. I just gotta ask. Why? I mean, being intuned with nature; being able to grow crops, having a special connection to the & with nature; wouldn't it make more sense for Earth Ponies to have special, magical hooves to get the job done? EDIT: I should just have read this comment here:
Quote from: Dawnstar on 2014 Jul 26, 08:06:23
Earth Pony magic seems to get passed over in general I think since it seems to be an even more passive form of magic than Pegasus weather magic, but I do think it is still there even if we may not actually notice it's there. Also, I don't think it's the appearance of Earth Pony hooves that actually makes them earth pony hooves, but rather the innate magic that Earth Ponies possess that is generally utilized through their hooves. Much in the way that a Unicorn channels their magic through their horn, or Pegasus magic is primarily utilized through their wings.
....
They also are said to possess the fortitude of an Earth Pony as well as their connection to the earth. However, since we've only seen the Alicorns in the show use magic and flight abilities it's easy to see why their Earth Pony features would be a bit muddled as we've never actually seen anything beyond the extra fortitude.
^That actually makes a lot more sense lol
I should really read other people's replies before writing up my own replyEither way, it's certainly a less visible signifier, but it's still a valid form of magic. I mean just look at this!
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/sxNwnTr.jpg[/img]
Plus there's this, which I think is a lovely shout-out to Earth-Pony Magic.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/b8xOmQP.png[/img]
^Note how the seedling sprouted up pretty much instantaneously. Lauren Faust was still around during season two :P
I know she doesn't work on the show anymore, and I'm probably making a lot of assumptions here, but I still believe the show-staffers try to keep things in line with how she'd do 'em.
QuoteNote the "unicorn horn" and "Pegasi wings" :P I'm not trying to imply that Alicorn Magic is the same as Unicorn magic, but I am saying that the anatomy of their horns are virtually the same.
Well they told 2 lies in that video alone, I don't see why they don't just say that for the younger audience. :P
So since they have the same horn as a unicorn, then the question is why is their magic different? Because of their wings? What effect does that have on the magic? Why normal unicorns can't do the same magic as the alicorns if they have the same type of horns? Why does it need to be divided into alicorn and unicorn magic instead of just magic or active magic?
QuoteThere's also this little quote from Lauren Faust, which was written around the same time.
Yes but anything that didn't make it into the show is subject to change. I don't think Lauren planned for 2 more alicorns, Twilight having a brother, her having a castle and etc.
Unlike unicorns and pegasi, earth ponies do not have their distinguishable traits visible. If you compare for example AJ's hooves, they are indistinguishable from Twilight's or Rainbow's. The only way is to see their traits at work.
And I honestly think that that fast plant grow was made for the moment. I do not believe that Earth ponies are responsible for such fast plant growths.
Now according to what Pinkie :D/ ovOPinkemena said long horns also pose as more power and if it's a sharp horn well that's even more dangerous
now what pinkie did is cut twilight's horn in half so her magic abilities are lowered or if it gets struck by the dark crystals of the crystal empire's tyrant well your magic will be blocked for a while ,however this process may or may not effect changelings or other mythical beast in the everfree forest or anywhere else in equestrian lands that hold demonic cretures.
(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/230/a/9/endie_and_her_enderman_by_casandraponyartist-d6inco9.png) If you try to do any of this to an enderman or enderpony well they will just teleport away before you can even cast a spell on them
Quote from: Spark Lights on 2014 Jul 30, 14:17:36
Now according to what Pinkie :D/ ovOPinkemena said long horns also pose as more power and if it's a sharp horn well that's even more dangerous
now what pinkie did is cut twilight's horn in half so her magic abilities are lowered or if it gets struck by the dark crystals of the crystal empire's tyrant well your magic will be blocked for a while ,however this process may or may not effect changelings or other mythical beast in the everfree forest or anywhere else in equestrian lands that hold demonic cretures.
If you try to do any of this to an enderman or enderpony well they will just teleport away before you can even cast a spell on them
Who said that? That's just a headcanon thing. The same for the Twilight horn thing. Never happened except in somene's head.
The only magic blockage was done to Shining armor when he fought Sombra. That was one case when he lost. We can do nothing but speculate about it.
How in the slightest is the post relevent to the topic except the beginning (which is pure headcanon).
You'll figure it out :]
Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Jul 29, 03:43:05I do not believe that Earth ponies are responsible for such fast plant growths.
Why not? I mean isn't growing crops basically their thing?
I wouldn't say it's their only thing, but since it has been stated that only Earth Ponies can grow food it is certainly a dominant part of their natural magic. I think the quick growing sprout could be argued either way though. On one hand perhaps Earth Ponies really can make plants grow that quickly which would make their own magic all the more significant. On the other hand it may have just been an effect for the episode to push the point that earth ponies grow the food they all eat.
I think this thread's in danger of getting off topic though.
Spoiler: Possible spoilers if you haven't read the book. • show I am a bit curious as to how cannon the book Journal of the Two Sisters could be considered though. From the pieces I've been able to find, since I haven't read it fully, there are supposedly more Alicorns out there that had raised the two sisters before Starswirl began to teach them. Also, if it can be considered cannon it also shows the strong contrast between the strength of Unicorn magic and Alicorn magic. According to the book it used to take 6 Unicorns each to move the sun and moon and doing so for extended periods of time would completely drain the Unicorn of their magic (Starswirl himself apparently looses his magic just before the sisters take over the task).
Quote from: Mizuki on 2014 Aug 01, 20:55:10
Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Jul 29, 03:43:05I do not believe that Earth ponies are responsible for such fast plant growths.
Why not? I mean isn't growing crops basically their thing?
Growing crops yes. But I do not think they can do it in like seconds as it was showed in the scene of your picture.
If they could, that would eliminate the reason for them to plant right after they have cleared the snow and wouldn't require them to wait for crops to grow (if they have fast growing ability). Plus I hope you recall when the apples first came to 'Ponyville' they planted everything but they had to wait for it to grow. If they could've made them grow faster, I bet they would. Only the zap apple trees grew instant but only because of their own magic.
Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Jul 27, 13:15:20
Quote from: Runzi333 on 2014 Jul 27, 13:11:08
Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Jul 26, 13:44:44
That would imply that the changelings aren't a separate race but corrupted and probably heavily modified normal ponies.
P.S. That is if you consider their wings comparable to pegasi/alicorn wings. Rarity also had wings and a horn but you don't see anybody saying she was an alicorn.
Changlings could be mutated ponies that have become a new race considering we don't know much about them.
It's not the physical traits that make alicorns what they are it's their magic. Rarity had unicorn magic and spell made wings (not even made by her magic). The show also states that alicorn magic is much more powerful than regular magic implying by having greater magic you become an alicorn. So what if the physical traits come after? By becoming more powerful you gain the traits to go with it.
That would imply that:
1. Every unicorn can become an alicorn if they advance enough (which isn't the case).
2. Only unicorns can become alicorns (which also isn't the case).
Twilight had unicorn power but then she gained wings and suddenly she is an alicorn, while Rarity gained wings but wasn't an alicorn.
Rarity didn't get alicorn magic,and I think it depends on the ponies understanding of friendship or something equally important. Sombra was powerful enough to make an empire disappear.If it depended on power,wouldn't he have ascended.And Chrysalis may be the former princess of love,but turned evil later on.
Quote from: Knowlegeseeker on 2014 Aug 02, 03:48:12
Rarity didn't get alicorn magic,and I think it depends on the ponies understanding of friendship or something equally important. Sombra was powerful enough to make an empire disappear.If it depended on power,wouldn't he have ascended.And Chrysalis may be the former princess of love,but turned evil later on.
So you're saying Rarity has no friends and does not understand friendship? She sure could've fooled me with her being an element of harmony and such.
It's debatable if stallions can become alicorns. For me only mares can become or be born as such but it's just my opinion. Also friendship isn't the only thing that can turn you into alicon (other being love). Also we don't know how Tia and Luna are alicorns since they appear to have the bonus of slow aging.
There's no information about changeling to say for certain. If that's true, why doesn't she return and conquer the Crystal empire? Why Celestia leaves Cadence unsupervised if such a thing has happened to the previous alicorn of love?
Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Aug 02, 04:01:59
Quote from: Knowlegeseeker on 2014 Aug 02, 03:48:12
Rarity didn't get alicorn magic,and I think it depends on the ponies understanding of friendship or something equally important. Sombra was powerful enough to make an empire disappear.If it depended on power,wouldn't he have ascended.And Chrysalis may be the former princess of love,but turned evil later on.
So you're saying Rarity has no friends and does not understand friendship? She sure could've fooled me with her being an element of harmony and such.
It's debatable if stallions can become alicorns. For me only mares can become or be born as such but it's just my opinion. Also friendship isn't the only thing that can turn you into alicon (other being love). Also we don't know how Tia and Luna are alicorns since they appear to have the bonus of slow aging.
There's no information about changeling to say for certain. If that's true, why doesn't she return and conquer the Crystal empire? Why Celestia leaves Cadence unsupervised if such a thing has happened to the previous alicorn of love?
It took Twilight a while to understand it completely.I think Twilight understands it more,since she used to not have any and she treasures it more because of that.I always assumed Celestia and Luna where born alicorns. Chrysalis might still be gathering the changlings from her last defeat.And hanging over someones shoulder is guaranteed to make them rebel.
Also,we have no evidence that male alicorns can or can't exist.
I doubt Twilight is the sole alone unicorn in Equestria that didn't have friends.
If you consider the comics cannon (which I do). They already returned and defeated yet again.
of course
Well this how derpy got to be an alicorn hehehe
So I'm curious... and I've never noticed anyone say this and never really been able to research it thus far....
If Twilight is now an Alicorn... Thus... Nearly Immortal... (Nearly.... Nearly) and she's the Princess of Friendship.... What's going to happen to the other Manes? They're normal ponies and will grow old and pass on... My hubby had a theoretical giggle talk about whether they would all advance to grow with her... Since they're part of the Elements now and all... I know there's no story on it so I'm asking speculation and references to hint at what would happen... Would she just become good friends and a guardian figure to their children and grandchildren? Forced to watch her friends pass away generation after generation? Seems a bit depressing for a Princess to me... Cadance is at least Love, which is easier but she seems to have a similar trial ahead of her... Shining Armor won't be around forever either... and I wouldn't see Cadance the kind of Pony to have a line of Stallions to go through.
Also how many centuries would it have taken for Celestia and Luna to get their sparkly flowing manes? We see Twilight get it for like a split second at the end of S4... Which was OMG pretty but Cadance herself is still pretty new to the Princess deal... and I'd love to see her mane with the sparkliness of love! and Yes I know this is all a display of power... It seems to be some sort of storage? for power possibly... I'm not dense in that factor.. Common sense is impeccable with these things. Just asking on again, speculation as to how long it took for them to accumulate enough power to have that.
One of the members of the team who makes the show (I forgot who) stated in twitter that Twilight will not outlive her friends. That means she does not have the lifespan like Celestia and Luna. Cadence being made into an alicorn like Twilight, probably would not outlive Shining Armor too.
Celestia and Luna on the other hand have been around for many and many of years. That allowed them to develop and grow in magical abilities and such have great magical power. That explains the flowy manes. There is a theory that Tia and Luna are born alicorns and such are different from made alicorns such as Twilight and Cadence.
So she's also only a temporary conduit for magic? What will happen when Twilight passes in that case? It's all so... circulatory... She's like a conduit for magic yet will not be exceedingly long-lived... And the elements of harmony also... When the Six pass on who will take them up? for the generations to come I suppose? This whole storyline seems so complex that it can't be so simple o.o or it's so simple that it's complex... idk lol
Cadance would make sense though being in a generation that needed extra love and someone to push them in the right direction... especially with the Crystal Empire's backstory... but Twilight is different than that
The elements are in the tree, and can be taken in time by those who need them like when Celestia and Luna took them.
I don't know what will happen. I'm no story writer and I doubt the show will go on until their deaths.
Considering Celestia and Luna were the previous bearers of the Elements before Luna's banishment, and how they passed on to the six afterward, it would make sense if the power of the Elements would pass on to future generations.
The book Journal of the Two Sisters would certainly favor the princesses having always been Alicorns. According to the book Starswirl apparently chose them to be Equestria's future rulers because they were Alicorns. Of course this is only if you want to consider the book cannon.
Also, I figure an Alicorn's height comes with age while their mane gives an indication of their magic strength. Height is easy to see of course, manes can probably be argued a little. However, I will point out that Cadence's mane is noticeably different from the average ponies with the extra gradients it has, and at the end of Canterlot Wedding when she taps into the (supposed) full strength of her special talent her mane starts flowing like Celestia's and Luna's. Seeing as how Twilight's did something similar at the end of season 4 I would theorize that if their manes don't end up flowing permanently like the older two's do because they're not born Alicorns, they do start to flow when they tap into the strongest parts of their power.
Of course this is all speculative opinion until if or when the writers decide to elaborate more on Alicorn powers.
And yet another topic that will start an argument or so...
In topic: Alicorns are goddesses not gods take it like this first there are the lower class known as the "every day ponies" next there is the guards then the kings powerful but not too powerful moving on there are the immortals and now we are in the "above the cloud" layer next goddesses like celestia and finally the top God or Gods(Depending on what you believe in) that is all I can do
*Stabs a unicorn horn then leaves"
I don't remember seeing Lauren Faust in the show? Did I miss an episode?
Quote from: Dawnstar on 2014 Aug 13, 22:36:35
Considering Celestia and Luna were the previous bearers of the Elements before Luna's banishment, and how they passed on to the six afterward, it would make sense if the power of the Elements would pass on to future generations.
The book Journal of the Two Sisters would certainly favor the princesses having always been Alicorns. According to the book Starswirl apparently chose them to be Equestria's future rulers because they were Alicorns. Of course this is only if you want to consider the book cannon.
Also, I figure an Alicorn's height comes with age while their mane gives an indication of their magic strength. Height is easy to see of course, manes can probably be argued a little. However, I will point out that Cadence's mane is noticeably different from the average ponies with the extra gradients it has, and at the end of Canterlot Wedding when she taps into the (supposed) full strength of her special talent her mane starts flowing like Celestia's and Luna's. Seeing as how Twilight's did something similar at the end of season 4 I would theorize that if their manes don't end up flowing permanently like the older two's do because they're not born Alicorns, they do start to flow when they tap into the strongest parts of their power.
Of course this is all speculative opinion until if or when the writers decide to elaborate more on Alicorn powers.
Adding on to the mane thing...
I remember noticing that Celestia's and Luna's hair stopped flowing once they gave their alicorn magic to Twilight in the Season 4 finale, possibly giving some more evidence that the flowing of the manes is connected to the power of their magic. I like to think of it as the time Goku and Gohan first started training in thier Super Saiyan forms in preparation of fighting Cell. It probably took some concentration to get used to doing constantly.
this is an interesting topic, i have nothing to add to it at the moment, i am merely reading it
Did anyone else here read 'The Journal of the Two Sisters'?