Regarding this tension in the air...

[Rissian]

Spoiler: show

So basically Swebow "Sabotages" something he worked on for years for revenge? I'm not buying it. With all due respect I don't believe it. (I would like to point out the you're , and your in this are to the team , and not only you Tekner.)

It would harm him more than anyone else. He was here since EO times , and I know the same can be said to other team members , but still the idea that he would try to sabotage something he took part in because of how immature his team was acting makes no sense whatsoever.

As I said a couple times, I was one of the last people to lose faith in him. Among my reasons were that, as you said, it makes no sense for him to sabotage something he worked on for years. That is exactly why I explicitly made it clear that that's what he did. Here is a quote from his May 26th update:

So, apparently I got blamed now for releasing sensitive information? No, I release one screenshot, to Dandy, where her post got switched because of my agreement to some of her points!
...
After when I heard I was getting kicked, I started to post more pics for Skype chats. Not really sensitive information at all!

So... I didn't want to release this, but hell. If they wanted sensitive information release; here you go

Canterlot, that has been made so far... and it's been a year... (notice the new shader and pony models? That is kind of cool isn't it? But Ponyville haven't really been updated at all. Everfree haven't been touched)

He outright said that he's releasing sensitive information simply because he doesn't agree with that what he leaked before was sensitive information. He then begins to detail new features that we were saving for the cons. I don't know what your definition of sabotage is, but that clearly fits mine, among his other misdeeds that he admits to doing. Now, I don't believe he's made it his mission to shut down LoE. That's not at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that of the poor decisions he's made regarding sensitive information, almost all of them can be classified as sabotage, and he knows this. I'm speaking more of what that says about his character, than his intent.

Thing is, many of you have an emotional attachment to SweBow that will take time to ease out of. I understand that and am only trying to give you both sides of the argument so that you may form your own opinion of what happened, but regardless of what opinion that turns out to be, we're moving forward with the game.

Also still when you tried to explain why no official statement was said you completely stray away from the idea , and constantly try to make Swebow look like the bad guy. So still I ask the same question Tiger asks. Why has there not been an official statement?

The reason it feels like I keep trying to make SweBow "the bad guy" is because everything that's happened thus far has its roots in him. If he hadn't gossiped about something that was brought up in a serious manner and was dismissed as a concern almost as soon as it was brought up, Dandy wouldn't have quit the team. If he didn't leak the private conversations and material, he wouldn't have gotten in trouble and would still be on the team. It all goes back to him because he abused his admin privileges and our trust in him. Does that make him a "bad guy"? I won't say. That's up to you to decide.

As to why there's no official statement yet... I clearly explained why a couple of times, from a couple of different angles. If you didn't see my explanations, then you should reread my post. The jyst of it was because SweBow, being the old PR lead, won't give us some of our necessary PR tools back and that there are consequences to making a public statement about all of this.

Also you keep saying that just because we don't see something happening doesn't mean something isn't happening. Well then can I please see an example of what is happening? Then later you say "We aren't hiding anything" , and "We are entitled to our own privacy." In the same sentence. I don't really have to point out what's wrong.

The only examples I could give are our skype discussions about PR, future events, if/how we're going to make a public announcement, etc. I need consent from everyone in those conversations before I can show them to you. I suppose the only other proof I can show, however small, is the screenshot I posted above where Anya is giving Hapony and I her support in posting what we feel we need to and that Hapony is among the many team members who got over all this drama already.

Actually, there isn't anything wrong with that statement. "We aren't hiding anything" was a response to the accusation that we're picking sides and purposely hiding evidence of more wrongdoings on our part solely to cover it up. "We are entitled to our own privacy." has to do with the fact that all of the gossip going around about who said what and how we were affected by it has nothing to do with you guys and shouldn't be made public. They were put together like that to mean this, put more succinctly: "Our personal conversations were inappropriately made public. You guys didn't need to know about them in the first place because they aren't any of your concern, and no we're not just saying that because we have anything to cover up." Obviously there has to be a sense of trust in the first place in order for you to believe any of that. This is one of the areas I'm not going to go out of my way to prove because common sense dictates that this is the case anyway, and it doesn't matter if you trust me about that. You can choose to believe us or not. It doesn't change that we're still working on LoE without SweBow and those who chose to leave us. That was their decision and we're not letting it affect us beyond that.

Also we aren't asking any personal questions about anyone's life. We were asking about this game that is announced publicly , and why there hasn't been a single word on recent info that has been shown. A normal company would have said something about what their making , and all of that , but here we have complete silence , and the use of "Privacy for a public matter." as an excuse.

I believe that is actually a difference in what answers you're seeking versus what other people want to hear. I've been answering more questions than I care to count and my responses were constructed the way they were as a result of those many questions. Now, if you want to know why we haven't said anything about the game since Canterlot Gardens and our most recent events, SweBow actually already answers that quite clearly in his document, if you've read it. If not, it goes something like this: SweBow had a disagreement with the way the other team leads wanted to conduct PR and he went silent in protest. This went on for some time, and despite the other team leads constantly trying to get him to talk to them about some course of action, he remained silent and many things went undone. This included LoE participating in Galacon, which SweBow said before his silence that he was taking care of, and yet never did. Once the other team leads finally gave up trying to rely on SweBow to get PR done, they took matters into their own hands because things needed to get done. Unfortunately, by this time (a few weeks ago), we were already planning content to show off at Fiesta Equestria and Everfree Northwest and now we can't really show anything without ruining the surprise. Remember, we withheld showing content several months before Canterlot Gardens as well. This should be no surprise to you.

So first off you're saying you don't have to fix it because humans must obtain flaws , but then you say you're trying to fix it? I don't get it at all. Basically everything said so far was that you were sorry you allowed your flaws to be seen , and you never actually cared for them , and are in fact continuing them , but when you see that the others hate that idea 5 seconds later , and you all have been working very hard to improve?

I don't understand what you mean. What I said is that, to me, it appears some of you formulate your arguments acting as if we're perfect robots. What I'm trying to convey is that we're humans and we screw up sometimes. What I'm not saying is that because we're prone to screw up, we can justify all of our bad behavior and move on as if it never happened. It ties back into the fact that all of the stuff SweBow keeps leaking are personal conversations that were obviously hand-picked to show off our flaws. With all that in mind, it means that these issues are things we've been dealing with all along. SweBow bringing them to light hasn't changed how we're dealing with them much. All it did was make you guys more aware of them. We're human, we make mistakes, we got over them, you should too.

We don't think the way you acted was the abuse. The way you did things such as get rid of Swebow , and constantly try to silence whatever doesn't agree with you was the abuse.

Again, your views on this differ from most of the comments and questions I've received over the course of this whole escapade. However, to address your points, I fail to understand how it was abuse to get rid of SweBow and move inappropriate material from the public forums to team-only sections for review. Are you saying that because the posts contain juicy gossip that you want to know about, it's exempt from the forum rules that are in place that apply to everyone? I find that a ridiculous sentiment, personally. Not to put words in your mouth, but that's how that argument comes off since the only posts we've "censored" were moved (not deleted) because they broke forum rules. I've posted numerous things and told numerous people in skype things that reveal what was told to me by other team leads and other content you may otherwise classify as what we'd want to censor. I've yet to be told to stop making response posts or to stop talking to people about what I know and how I feel. Regarding kicking SweBow, all of the team leads were unanimous in their decision. If I recall correctly, they held that meeting per the team guidelines that SweBow helped draw up, to kick a rogue team member to prevent further issues.

We aren't talking about forum posts. We're talking about the game The whole argument against them being fame-seekers is that they don't try to rip off anyone elses posts. Considering I find that highly impossible. If someone wanted to be famous he wouldn't (Even though I have no idea how he/she would) try to steal someones post on the forums. It's just forums that aren't even that popular. What they are doing has to do with the game , and NOT the forums.

As you accuse me of not having proof, I'd like to ask you to provide the same. Also, I provided ample defense that didn't have to do with the forums.

So the recent Swebow leaving has nothing to do with the team failing? Yeah because if it was him that chose to leave , and as a normal desire to stop working he would definitely try to ruin something he helped create.

How is the team failing? We're doing fine over here. Again, I don't know why he would purposely sabotage something he helped foster. I expressed my confusion in my original post. That doesn't deny or refute the facts and evidence at-hand, however.

Okay here is something that isn't a response to your post: What about the public relations? What's going to happen to it. If the team isn't hiding anything , or falling apart then a simple explanation will show us everything is fine , and dandy

I don't know exactly what's going to happen with PR. For now other team leads are handling it and I'm sure we'll appoint/hire a new team lead soon. What kind of explanation are you looking for?

Also doesn't explain the fact why Dandy was banned for expressing her opinion and making suggestions. It also makes me wonder when there was suspicion that Swebow was giving her special treatment nopony bothered to even tell her much less bring her into the discussion.

Dandy was banned because her posts were being reposted by anonymous user(s). Before we had time to investigate who it was reposting, she was banned in the event that it was her who was reposting. She should be unbanned at this point, but I'll double check just in case. I already told them to rectify her ban a couple days ago. Regarding the "special treatment", it was that Dandy Lion and SweBow are good friends and discuss their ideas with one another frequently. Because of that, Dandy's ideas tended to go through SweBow for feedback before she told anybody about them. As a result, SweBow often, but not always, agreed with her. To onlookers, this looked a little suspicious because they seemed to always agree with everything. This "suspicion" was brought to SweBow's attention and SweBow presented his side and cases where he didn't agree, and the topic was promptly dropped. Dandy Lion wasn't part of the discussion because it didn't have to do with her. It had to do with that SweBow constantly advocated for Dandy Lion's ideas, not that there's anything wrong with that in general, and people just wanted to ask him why. Dandy took great offense to that she couldn't provide her own side to it, despite the fact that the topic was dropped and never brought back up again. This one I'm still on the wall about and it definitely could have been handled differently. I do, personally, believe that Dandy overreacted, though, It's not really my place to judge her, I suppose.

I'd also like to point out how many team members are straying away from this topic. We are constantly told they aren't straying away from anything , but the second people start talking about this they keep posting unrelated pictures , and videos thinking that would change the topic. So why not just stop running away , and come say something? I promise we won't bite.

I fail to understand how "many team members" are straying away from the topic. If you're referring to Hapony and aussie sharing their input about their relationship with their team leader (which is relevant because of the accusations against us), then I hardly understand how that qualifies as us constantly trying to deviate from the topic at-hand. I know I'm not running away from it. If you want me to provide proof for the things I assert, then I should be able to expect the same from you.

How come you're the only team member even providing answers you aren't an admin and this issue had some of the highest level admin's who can post in areas that you can't see, It's like that in any forum. You have different groups with different levels of access to forum data. I don't mean this in a mean way either I just want a straight answer.    I've been to more than enough forums to know about group permissions and each and every forum I went to had a system such as that and admins can see every single thing.

Members > Team members > Team Leaders > Mods > Admins (Granted I don't know if all team leaders are admins but I know some are.) It's obvious which ones to as only admins can edit certain things in the forum data.

And there seems to be confusion among the forums and their team members and leaders. Only 3 team leaders are being targeted on this the others are perfectly fine. That's likely why Hapony responded in that way but I could be wrong.

[Blues-Music]

Well that makes more sense even though it doesn't show him as a bad guy. So basically he talked about something that barely even had any sensitive info , and then took some skype pics which also didn't matter much so then he gets kicked out? For not doing anything worth kicking him out of his long time working? Well then I support him doing that. If the judgement is as biased as that I would have not only did that , but I would have did my best to murder the project.

This guy spent years working here , and he gets kicked. For no good reason. Well by giving you a valid reason he's actually helping you. What did you guys think would happen? You kick him for such small , and harmless things , and then we all get along nicely , and have soft tacos?

Tekner you've worked here for a year right? Lets say you worked here for 3. You do something very harmless , and out of the blue you get kicked out of the project. all your work is now gone , and the people you worked for are now taking credit for it. What would you do? Would you out kindly , and say "Sure why not" , and before you say you wouldn't try to harm them , and would leave angrily you would be saying that you would let something you invested your time , and effort in be taken from you , and exploited for no good reason.

Also this doesn't count as sabotage. Sabotage would be destroying the game , or anything in it , or he could make fake info to try to frame the team. This is not sabotage , and it is proving that the team is very very very unproffesional. So in fact what he did ALSO shouldn't get him kicked.

I'm being trained to let emotion not get in the way of the truth (Course in law & defense). If my brother commits a crime I would not lie , and say exactly everything what happened. So defending swebow has nothing to do with friendship i'm defending him because he's right.

Also I was beginning to think that they actually didn't care about fame until you showed me that. Now i'm certain of it. So Swebow is gone , and he had done tons of work. Now that he's gone that credit is passed on to the team leaders who didn't do it. Before you say it's passed on to Ellowee that doesn't make it right. Swebow did those things , and he was the reason they happened.

Also if you say "The team leaders won't get the fame because of Ellowee." an easy counter argument is: Ellowee isn't real. From everything I heard El ow ee (LoE) is a dumb attempt at making a mascot to replace Swebow who wasn't even the mascot.  So basically since Ellowee isn't a real person there are only two attempts you can go with this:
1.You let no one control Ellowee meaning that Swebows work isn't even credited at all. Meaning that the PR  will not have a leader. so the fame will be passed on to the workers , and there will be utter chaos.

2. Someone controls Ellowee , and then whoever controls her gets the fame meaning it's a poor attempt at hiding the credit they steal.

I wanted to ask about the PR team to see what you were going for with the whole LoE.

Also there is another 2 point extravaganza:
1.The team is lazy , and is barely doing any work , and is getting fame for it. Which is why they barely touched the game for a few months.

2. The team is working at their best , but apparantly the game is going to take approximately  20 years for completion. 7 for alpha to kick in.

So now it seems that the small canterlot stuff Swebow showed us were the only things you planned to show in the next convention leaving everything you didn't work on hidden. So basically you wouldn't have gotten any work done during the time left before the con.

So basically unless you make official statements about the game I doubt it's going anywhere , and that i'm waiting for nothing.

Also I never accused you for not having proof , and that is a way to back away from what I said. Also if you want proof they won't ever use the forums for fame is that these are not popular forums at all. It's lucky to get 50 people online at the same time so you don't see someone calling themselves famous because someone liked their post.

Also what I meant by straying away was that they constantly change the subject. With threads like "The end of the beginning." , and posting random music , and pictures on this thread instead of doing anything. Also the whole award thing was made just to distract us.

Yep the team seems fine , and Dandy. Considering they have a huge PR crisis , and we now know they haven't had any work done for that past year.

Speaking of Dandy if she was supposed to be unbanned i'd like the team to unban Dandy because i'm very interested in hearing her word in this.

I also agree with Trege. Why don't the people that are targeted say something? I know Anya made that apology thread where the whole apology was just apologizing that they let people know they did wrong , and never actually apologized about the actual wrong , or explained what they were gonna do about it.

Also the reason these 3 were targeted was because Swebow exposed them of stealing credit , and them having us believe that the game had some major progress.

[AlDeezy]

Tekner, thanks for being up front and going so far to give us a better picture as to what's going on.

Also, your apology is accepted  . *hugs*

Spoiler: RE: Blues • show

Remember that there really is no black or white to this, only black and white. I love SweBow; he's a pretty awesome guy. Look how far he went to get his viewpoints heard! But... that's the thing. By going so far to express his concerns, he has also ruffled some feathers that shouldn't have been. No one is perfect, and we make little mistakes sometimes. Sometimes we make big ones! It's not that what SweBow posted was wrong, it's just that it wasn't exactly right either.
As stated by several team members now, this has been blown a bit out of proportion. I fee terrible for anyone who has been subject to bullying within the LoE team under the guise of having fun, and hopefully after this backlash things will be restructured and reanalyzed for the better.

[quote author="Blues-Magic"]You cant talk about something public because it's private?[/quote]
Could have worded that a bit... better. We really have no right to hound LoE staff members for every issue that arises. It's bad luck that this got an attention hike. Concern is one thing, but worrying to the point of needing to know everything at all times is counter productive and stress inducing.

[quote author="Blues-Magic"]I'd also like to point out how many team members are straying away from this topic. We are constantly told they aren't straying away from anything , but the second people start talking about this they keep posting unrelated pictures , and videos thinking that would change the topic. So why not just stop running away , and come say something?[/quote]
Your eyes must be a bit glossed over over this. We are getting a response by the team! Although the entire team isn't always responding at all times, we're not really leaving topic. Also, diabeetus inducing ponies are ALWAYS welcome.

[quote author="Blues-Magic"]This guy spent years working here , and he gets kicked. For no good reason. Well by giving you a valid reason he's actually helping you. What did you guys think would happen? You kick him for such small , and harmless things , and then we all get along nicely , and have soft tacos?[/quote]
There are always good and bad reasons behind everything. I don't think the LoE team is that selfish that they would remove SweBow "just cuz he cramppin' mai style-z". There are repercussions to any action, and they just built stress and tension over time.

[quote author="Blues-Magic"]
From everything I heard El ow ee (LoE) is a dumb attempt at making a mascot to replace Swebow who wasn't even the mascot.[/quote]
You probably just heard opinions on the matter. LoE has come out and stated that it was just a coincidence the dates were matched up in that way. We can only have our suspicions, but as far as what has been officially released, we can't assume Elowee is a replacement.

Blues, please see the other side to this. The point of this discussion to to put everyone on the same playing field and look at things through everyone's eyes. The purpose of debate is to not pick sides, but to be able to see all sides. Arguing without an open mind is inefficient and a waste of effort. I know you may not agree with LoE, but at the same time you should not fully agree with the opposition. Remember, no black or white; on black [quote]and[/quote] white.

Spoiler: RE: Trege • show

[quote author=Trege]"How come you're the only team member even providing answers..."[/quote]
I would like to know this as well! Public apologies are one thing, but what about the Q&A that follows? People do need to have their concerns settled and questions answered, after all. Even if the answer is "We can not answer that," it's still an answer.

Spoiler: RE: Tiger • show

[quote author: Tiger]Blues speaks the truth. SweBow's been around for a very, very long time. Even if he did decide to leave on his own, I doubt he would try and sabotage LOE as he wouldn't have had a reason to. But here he tells us of all this, which must be the truth.

As Blues says, if there's nothing to hide then get to the point. The production of LOE isn't in your own privacy, it's for the public, so show us. Show us what's happening.[/quote]
I wish I could agree with you. I really do. Knowing the exact level of completion would be pretty cool, but I it would rob us of the feeling of progression. Plus, the big updates at cons wouldn't be for anything! Game dev teams have a right to secrecy with their projects, and they are not bound by any means to show us anything they do. They fact that they update us at all at the pre-Alpha stage astounds me. Having to deal with a fandom this early in the dev is almost unheard of!

There is no way that SweBow would intentionally try to kill this project. Any negative feedback regarding the leaks should be taken to be unintentional. He wanted to bring to light some things he felt that were wrong, and took the heat for releasing them.

Spoiler: RE: Everyone • show

[Teal Turken]

Why is it we don't get an official statement but we get "Do you like Sit?" by Anya.
Anya, your attempt to butter up the community through your rewards and your thread will not work on me.

[Brick Stonewood]

There are a few things that I would like to clear up, since it is fairly evident that I've been summoned forth to give my input on this issue. I will present the facts on those issues as I see them. There are certain details, that for the sake of privacy of both past and current team members, I am neither willing nor able to disclose.

In the first place, Dandy's post was "silenced" because it broke many different rules all at once. It included personal attacks on multiple team members, cursing, controversial topics, and a link to content which violated forum rules, among other things. We moved it to an area wherein only team members could see it, because it did still contain suggestions, and we did value those suggestions. Being an ex-member of the development team, she was well aware of the rules she was violating, and posted it regardless. So yes, this detail did contribute greatly to her ban.

In the second place, Ellowee was conceptualized before SweBow ever left. She was never intended to replace anyone. Many development teams adopt mascots, and there is absolutely no reason to assume any malicious intent behind a mascot appearing. Many different team members were involved in her conception, and a few team members are responsible for her posts. The fact that most or all of you have no way of knowing which members I'm speaking of means that she is fulfilling her purpose, and will not be expressly associated with any individual members. Please leave her out of this.

In the third place, the awards are equally unrelated. Tekner is correct in saying that the majority of the team has moved on. While we're not ignoring the controversy, we are absolutely still working on the game. We've made some great progress, and when the conventions come, I hope you all get to see some of the amazing work that's been done. I, for one, am extremely excited about this prospect. Progress has not stopped, and the content that was leaked did very little to showcase our progress since the last public appearance we've made. I would have liked to show you a bit more along the way, were it up to me, but I'm not responsible for that department, and although I may not have agreed with SweBow's decision to keep our progress a secret during that time, I was certainly willing to comply with it. In the meantime, a few of us did try a few things to keep the public interested in our own little ways, with whatever small ideas we could think up to let the forum members know we still cared about them. We started holding artist showcases to give team members credit for their works and let the fans know of some of the processes involved in game creation. We tried having "notable pony awards" at one point, and issued out titles to a few other members as well, such as "Propane Salesman," and "America's Sweetheart," among other things. The recent awards are no different. While this may have been construed as attention-seeking behavior by some, that was never the intention, and those of us who took part in these do not, in my opinion, deserve to be attacked for doing so. I'm not telling you this to say that I'm firmly against receiving attention. That would be a lie. I like receiving attention about as much as I like re-watching Trainspotting. If it's right in front of me, I'm not going to turn it down, but it's certainly not a driving force in my life either. If there's honestly a need for me to explain this, I even asked if I should be the one to upload the artist showcases before I put them on the internet, and SweBow personally approved of each one before I did.

In the fourth place, you are somewhat correct in assuming that we would like for this to blow over without a large number of outside parties getting involved. We have a game we're trying to develop. That is our objective. Letting all of our fans in on any and all personal drama we might experience between ourselves would be counter-intuitive to that goal. Every second I spend typing this message out is a second I could be using to reach that goal. I'm doing it now because I care about the forum members enough to at least attempt to put your minds at ease about the development of the project. (And also because every page view gets us that much closer to covering server costs.  ) What I won't do, however, is start throwing out accusations toward or about anyone who has been, up to this point, helping us reach the goal of completing the game. The reasons for SweBow's removal have been publicly stated, and they are completely genuine. If I were to go through, point by point, and analyze every single shortcoming of his that I've been exposed to in the two years I've worked with him, it might make some of you feel better about the justification behind the decision. However, I refuse to take part in that sort of mud-slinging, and if my reputation is damaged as a result of that refusal, then so be it.

Lastly, A team member of mine has already stated his opinion on the matter in this thread. If you don't want to take his word for it, ask another member, or perhaps even an ex-member, if I'm unfair in my leadership, or if anyone else would be better suited for my position. I've told each of them multiple times that if they ever wish to challenge what authority I have, they're welcome to do so at any time. Out of the members I've had on my team, I've had exactly one member who left on poor terms. That was almost two years ago, and the member in question came back later and apologized for the conduct involved with that parting. I tell you these things because I want you to realize that the people making allegations against me, taking my words out of context, misquoting me, or in some cases, just completely lying about me, are not by any means indicative of the views of the team as a whole, or as a majority. The fact that no current team members have spoken ill of the team leaders, I can assure you, has nothing to do with censorship.

I'm well aware that the things I'm telling you are probably not what you want to hear. For that, I will not apologize. I'm speaking only for myself, because my opinions are the only ones I can state confidently. I will not publicly speculate on the goals, demeanor, or mental state of any other party involved, I will not take it upon myself to pass judgement on those I have no authority over, and I will certainly not share with you what has been shared with me in confidence without the express consent of any other involved parties, regardless of whether or not the same has been done to myself or to any of my close friends and/or co-workers. I wish ill upon no one, and I will make no attempt to harm the reputation of anyone involved. If any of you are worried about the future of Legends of Equestria, your concern is somewhat understandable given the circumstances, but unfounded. Progress is being made, and will continue to be made for a very long time. If any of you are worried about who might be to blame for a conflict that is completely resolved aside from the perpetuation being brought about by people with allegedly good intentions, I'm afraid the only advice I can give is "Don't be."

[Rissian]

In the first place, Dandy's post was "silenced" because it broke many different rules all at once. It included personal attacks on multiple team members, cursing, controversial topics, and a link to content which violated forum rules, among other things. We moved it to an area wherein only team members could see it, because it did still contain suggestions, and we did value those suggestions. Being an ex-member of the development team, she was well aware of the rules she was violating, and posted it regardless. So yes, this detail did contribute greatly to her ban.

I have a copy of her first post in HTML in case this was ever brought up. It contained no cursing all it contained was one vulgar word which a mod had already edited out. I woke up around 7AM that day and backed it up, edited and unedited. If you're going to try and explain it you should tell what was actually in the post. It was calm compared to what the Internet is normally like. Ever since this started I've been backing up information so nothing gets twisted. Very few rules that are listed on the forum were broken in that post not enough requiring censorship. (Just wanted to clear this part up.)

I also have an Opera web archive of the page that day in case this was ever brought up as well.

[Albino]

I'd also like to point out how many team members are straying away from this topic. We are constantly told they aren't straying away from anything , but the second people start talking about this they keep posting unrelated pictures , and videos thinking that would change the topic. So why not just stop running away , and come say something? I promise we won't bite.

I can't speak for the others, but the reason *I* am posting pony pictures is because this is supposed to be a place to have fun, not pour fuel on a fire.  If you want this place to get happier and more tolerant, BE happier and more tolerant. In other words, keep calm and pony on.

[Teal Turken]

If the LoE staff expects me to believe anything they say, they need to prove 2 things to me.

1. I want to see proof that the team is actually happy with their leaders. What was it, 9 members left reportedly because of abuse? All (or at least most of what I've seen) the other members who are not team leaders that have posted on this thead have said the same thing: "My team leader is nice"

2. I want to see proof that the game is actually being worked on. I don't recall seeing any bit of info being released since the stress test last year. That "Road to Alpha" image sure hasn't changed that much since then.

[Brick Stonewood]

I have a copy of her first post in HTML in case this was ever brought up. It contained no cursing all it contained was one vulgar word which a mod had already edited out. I woke up around 7AM that day and backed it up, edited and unedited. If you're going to try and explain it you should tell what was actually in the post. It was calm compared to what the Internet is normally like. Ever since this started I've been backing up information so nothing gets twisted. Very few rules that are listed on the forum were broken in that post not enough requiring censorship. (Just wanted to clear this part up.)

I also have an Opera web archive of the page that day in case this was ever brought up as well.

This is mostly correct, yes. A moderator did remove some language from the post beforehand. Had that been the only violation, we'd have left a censored version up, as we do with most posts containing one or a few pieces of isolated language. However, the post broke eight separate forum rules, and there was no way to remove every violation without completely destroying what was originally stated. The post needed to be moved at an absolute minimum, and failure to take any sort of disciplinary action would have been, in my opinion, giving her more privelage than we would normally afford a regular user. The first mods to act probably thought it was okay because she was on the team at one point, but some of us are more strict about the rules than others. For instance, I'm not going to yell at you for violating rule #3 just now.

If the LoE staff expects me to believe anything they say, they need to prove 2 things to me.

1. I want to see proof that the team is actually happy with their leaders. What was it, 9 members left reportedly because of abuse? All (or at least most of what I've seen) the other members who are not team leaders that have posted on this thead have said the same thing: "My team leader is nice"

2. I want to see proof that the game is actually being worked on. I don't recall seeing any bit of info being released since the stress test last year. That "Road to Alpha" image sure hasn't changed that much since then.

Most of the team members who left did so for unrelated reasons, but were dragged into the controversy simply for having left at the wrong time. It's unfortunate, but we're certainly not going to make them stay. If every team member in the thread telling you explicitly that their team leader is nice isn't proof enough that they're happy with their team leaders, I don't know how else to prove it to you.

You'll see proof that the game is being worked on as soon as we release information. The conventions start in one month, and it would be unfair to the conventions to deny premiering any new material simply because a few forum members demanded it. As the old saying goes, it's impossible to please everybody.

[McSleuthburger]

I dont know if me responding will help much but eh either way its worth a shot

As to the official statement, (if there is one released) I would have to guess it would repeat a lot of what Tekner has said previously and maybe some things I will say

regards to Swebow: He was released from the team because he leaked out information about the game. Information that we were saving up for the upcoming cons for example. Doing that goes directly against our code of conduct. Breaking code of conduct = punishment (so that is why that happens) If he didnt release the information, things would not be where they are now. Believe me Blues if we could all sit down and enjoy soft tacos I would be the McSleuthburger the Taco King.

Just because you havent seen anything about the game doesnt mean work is not getting done. You do realize a game like this usually takes a professional, paid staff maybe around 4-5 years to fully make. We are a team of late teens - mid twenties volunteering our time to make A GAME FOR YOU. A good game isint going to magically appear within a year for a group of volunteers

I'd also like to point out how many team members are straying away from this topic. We are constantly told they aren't straying away from anything , but the second people start talking about this they keep posting unrelated pictures , and videos thinking that would change the topic. So why not just stop running away , and come say something? I promise we won't bite.

You do realize that we are still trying to answer all of your questions though, Im guess they are posting pictures just to try and lighten up the mood a bit because it is kinda of depressing going through all of this

Lastly being in moderation I would think that I have the best idea of how Perry acts with us. Yes he tells me to work harder and pokes fun at me but it is no big deal because I know he isint serious with it. He just tries to lighten up the mood. He kinda lets me go around doing whatever I want because he believes in me and that I will make the right decision. I dont think he is trying to take all the glory from me doing my job (I dont know if there is glory in moderating  ) He knows if I really have a problem that I will go and contact him to get it resolved.

So I dont know if that helps or just makes more questions but thats what I got

[Teal Turken]

I understand you're holding all the game's info for the conventions, so I won't hold that against you. Besides if all the team was guilty of was laziness then that would just suck and that'd be it.

I don't feel like I can trust what the members say on this thread because many of their replies look like copy-pastes to me.
I'm not saying I WANT them to say something bad about one of the team leaders, but I want them to say something about the ACCUSED team leaders. Have they ever felt a choice made by a team leader was not the best for LoE? Something like that.

[Rissian]

I have a copy of her first post in HTML in case this was ever brought up. It contained no cursing all it contained was one vulgar word which a mod had already edited out. I woke up around 7AM that day and backed it up, edited and unedited. If you're going to try and explain it you should tell what was actually in the post. It was calm compared to what the Internet is normally like. Ever since this started I've been backing up information so nothing gets twisted. Very few rules that are listed on the forum were broken in that post not enough requiring censorship. (Just wanted to clear this part up.)

I also have an Opera web archive of the page that day in case this was ever brought up as well.

This is mostly correct, yes. A moderator did remove some language from the post beforehand. Had that been the only violation, we'd have left a censored version up, as we do with most posts containing one or a few pieces of isolated language in any post. However, the post broke eight separate forum rules, and there was no way to remove every violation without completely destroying what was originally stated. The post needed to be moved at an absolute minimum, and failure to take any sort of disciplinary action would have been, in my opinion, giving her more privelage than we would normally afford a regular user. The first mods to act probably thought it was okay because she was on the team at one point, but some of us are more strict about the rules than others. For instance, I'm not going to yell at you for violating rule #3 just now.

Fair enough but I'm asking that you to stop exaggerating in the attempt to make someone look bad. Only 1 personal attack was in Dandy's post. Considering That's the first rule I've ever broken in this forum was rule 3 just now.

If you want people to start trusting you, you need to not exaggerate what's true or false.

PS :
A problem with rule 3 is you can make anything against the rules with it. You have the right to do that because it's the team's forum but the way you use it will affect the normal members like me and the other normal member's views on you so you should use it wisely.

[Tekner]

I have a copy of her first post in HTML in case this was ever brought up. It contained no cursing all it contained was one vulgar word which a mod had already edited out. ... Very few rules that are listed on the forum were broken in that post ...

Don't forget, I do too. I've even shown it to you, so you know that I'm using the same post. Her post broke the following rules as far as I can see:

• 1. The Golden Rule - This one is iffy at best, but the personal attack may qualify, as well as the, albeit calmer, threats.


• 7. No Obscenity - You might not qualify her attack at the end as obscenity, but consider that it touches on sensitive topics and wasn't conducive to her main post at all.


• 8. No Flaming/Arguing - This rule explicitly targets personal attacks. This one, as it is written, overtly says that posts with this content will be removed outright.


• 12. Avoid sensitive material - This ties back into rule 7.


• 14. Controversial posts - Self explanatory


• 3. We have the final say - I list this one last because it supersedes all other rules. And if one were to argue that we're abusing this rule to censor things we don't like, remember that most organizations have this rule in place as well - it's not an uncommon "rule". Heck, most every restaurant I walk into has a sign that says "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."

As I said, these are just broken rules that I can see.

It was calm compared to what the Internet is normally like.

Trege, this isn't the rest of the internet. This is a forum with strict rules about keeping things family-friendly.

not enough requiring censorship

Rules 8 and 3.

I want to see proof that the team is actually happy with their leaders.

I think the proof I gave that none of us are being stopped from speaking out what we feel about all this is proof enough that no one else is unhappy enough to speak out. It's not like they'd need to make an inflammatory post stating that they're leaving, which would be censored like Dandy's was. They could simply state that they're leaving because of all the drama. I haven't seen any of that aside from the first four people, who were also close-knit friends and thus had personal ties to what happened. Also, my defense of LoE should imply that I have no residual issues with what's happened. We've had four more members since then post on this thread that they're completely content. If that doesn't count, then I don't know what you're looking for.

Have they ever felt a choice made by a team leader was not the best for LoE? Something like that.

I know I've already said multiple times that I don't appreciate Anya's immature prose or hijinks and that I've been on her case about it... I can't think of anything off the top of my head that Bloomberg did that I don't agree with, and I've already stated that I find it preposterous to try to accuse Perry of doing anything wrong at all.

[Teal Turken]

Spoiler: show

I knew I should've waited a week or a few before saying anything. I rushed in and let emotions speak for myself and I'm pretty sure I appear not only dumb buy hypocritical.
I'm just dropping out of the thread until I think I know what I'm going to say.
But again I don't feel convinced that the team members are truthfully speaking for themselves.

[Rissian]

I have a copy of her first post in HTML in case this was ever brought up. It contained no cursing all it contained was one vulgar word which a mod had already edited out. ... It was calm compared to what the Internet is normally like. ... Very few rules that are listed on the forum were broken in that post not enough requiring censorship.

Don't forget, I do too. I've even shown it to you, so you know that I'm using the same post. Her post broke the following rules as far as I can see:

• 1. The Golden Rule - This one is iffy at best, but the personal attack may qualify, as well as the, albeit calmer, threats.


• 7. No Obscenity - You might not qualify her attack at the end as obscenity, but consider that it touches on sensitive topics and wasn't conducive to her main post at all.


• 8. No Flaming/Arguing - This rule explicitly targets personal attacks. This one, as it is written, overtly says that posts with this content will be removed outright.


• 12. Avoid sensitive material - This ties back into rule 7.


• 14. Controversial posts - Self explanatory


• 3. We have the final say - I list this one last because it supersedes all other rules. And if one were to argue that we're abusing this rule to censor things we don't like, remember that most organizations have this rule in place as well - it's not and uncommon "rule". Heck, most every restaurant I walk into has a sign that says "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."

As I said, these are just broken rules that I can see.

Yeah, I recognize that multiple places have that rule I'm just saying it should be used wisely or others may distrust you further and that's bad for the game and the community. And I hope team members aren't exempt from the rules. Even in the private boards that only mods team leaders and admin's can see. An old forum I used to hang out in had this same exact group setup for members mods and admins etc color coded and everything.

[Sea Foam]

To both Tekner and Brick Stonewood, thank you.

I thank you because, regardless of if your information is truthful or not, you are taking time out to 'settle the storm,' so to speak. It is very much appreciated.

I will not say that I believe all that you say and I will not say that I believe all that Swebow has said. I try to remain as non-biased as I can so I can form my own views and opinions. So here's what I have to say from what I've gathered.

First of all, this is getting out of hand. I refer back to my previous post in this thread: this really has become a glorious controversy and it's starting to feel ridiculous.

     Going back to what many have said, this is a volunteer project managed by volunteers with an average age of mid-20s.
Of course some people are going to mess around with others and of course jokes will be pulled. There is no way, no possible way, that this team can run as smoothly as clockwork as many of us want to think and there is no way that the team will be the happiest, most agreeable family since the Brady Bunch. The disagreements and the immature jokes they pull on one another is none of our business and we can not expect them to let us in on every single detail. Doing so is outright counterproductive and, quite frankly, I don't care what goes on. I care that the game is being made and no one is being wronged or hurt in that process. The only reason I harp on the subject is because I feel some wrong has been done somewhere, but not to the extent that a lot of you think. What is done seems pretty much done and I have confidence that the team can sort out their own problems.

     Regarding the new awards. If this was not just some distraction, then it was simply bad timing. Really horrible timing, to be honest. Even if the intent was to lighten the mood, it should have been done after some kind of statement. It should have been implemented in the recovery period of this whole mess, not while it was still in full swing.
     I understand that a lot of the team feel that this is over and done, but many are still waiting and I don't think the recovery period is just quite here yet, as much as it should be.

     I do still think there should be some kind of official statement, that much hasn't changed from my last post. I understand that it may seem like a waste of time or the team may not have the resources, (providing Swebow is holding those resources back) but I think a simple thread on the subject would suffice. However, what I'm seeing in this thread as of now is a massive step in the right direction and I find it very admirable the attention that some team members are giving.

     The mascot.... this one is just asinine. It's a mascot, nothing more nothing less. I can't see it as anything but a mascot.

     I'd like to reiterate: I am on no one's side here. These are my thoughts and this is how I see the situation. I think the time to recover has come.
     Neither side can truly defend themselves without scrutiny, at this point. No explanation can be definitively proven. I don't think much more is left to be said. It's time to move on.

[AlDeezy]

And I hope team members aren't exempt from the rules.

Dandy's removed post goes to show that they aren't!

Is anypony aware of "Selective Attention"? It's when one focuses on a single stimuli and ignores everything else. I bring this up because it leads to a predetermined bias in this context. For example, when someone you don't like achieves a difficult task, you may be inclined to think they cheated to win, but if your best friend achieves the same task, you may think it's because they're a hard working person.

The human brain also tends to enjoy "confirmation bias," where you pick out ideas that agree with your own hypotheses.

I don't feel like I can trust what the members say on this thread because many of their replies look like copy-pastes to me.

What exactly makes you think my responses aren't just copy paste? How can I be sure yours aren't? We can't all assume that the only honest people are yourself and others who agree with you. The team members are speaking with us, and discussing with us. Arguing for the sake of being right isn't the way to go about this topic. A lot of hostility is being thrown at the team, and they're not really throwing back. Instead of denying what they are trying to say, why not try to satisfy your curiosity as to what happened?

A semi-topical selfish question here- Why was this thread made the day after the explanation behind SweBow's removal? Just 'cuz it was funny? I personally was very hurt by it, along with a few other comments made by team members seemingly mocking the whole situation. Comments made in public. For some reason.
If we are to believe that LoE cares about its image and how its fans view how well the team works, why and how are these things in existence? I get that the work environment is to be really informal for the sake of progression (and because fun team is best team), but I can't help but question the current professional boundaries that are in place.

@Sea Foam-
Although I agree for the most part, I would still like to know that this team's clockwork is well-maintained. Speaking from experience I know that it is possible to do many great things with volunteers, and still be able to keep the structure fairly stable. I hope that the community concerns have reached the right ears, and that some restructuring is going on, even if it is a few isolated incidences.

Also, we've gone too long in this thread without Pony music.

[Tekner]

A semi-topical selfish question here- Why was this thread made the day after the explanation behind SweBow's removal? Just 'cuz it was funny? I personally was very hurt by it, along with a few other comments made by team members seemingly mocking the whole situation. Comments made in public. For some reason.
If we are to believe that LoE cares about its image and how its fans view how well the team works, why and how are these things in existence? I get that the work environment is to be really informal for the sake of progression (and because fun team is best team), but I can't help but question the current professional boundaries that are in place.

It's there for the same reason I made my comment that offended you. As said, we're over what happened and at the time we thought that lightening the situation and showing through humor that we're over it was the best way to "pave the way" to recovery. Obviously that didn't go over well, which prompted me to take the serious approach I did a few pages later in this thread.

[Teal Turken]

I don't feel like I can trust what the members say on this thread because many of their replies look like copy-pastes to me.

What exactly makes you think my responses aren't just copy paste? How can I be sure yours aren't? We can't all assume that the only honest people are yourself and others who agree with you. The team members are speaking with us, and discussing with us. Arguing for the sake of being right isn't the way to go about this topic. A lot of hostility is being thrown at the team, and they're not really throwing back. Instead of denying what they are trying to say, why not try to satisfy your curiosity as to what happened?

I already submitted that I'm just letting emotions speak for myself.

Spoiler: This is kinda all this thread is. • show

[Rissian]

Hopefully this is all cleared up during the convention like mentioned many times before. We'll just have to wait and see if these facts mentioned about the game are true or not. I'm getting tired of debates... 

[ Invalid YouTube link ]