Pony science! :D

[Chishio Kunrin]

We use science ponies use magic but in the middle ages they used a method called alchemy which is a mix of science and magic.

That makes sense. The ponies could use alchemy. I mean, they even have potion-making (like in the Hearts & Hooves Day episode).

Though, then again, it's already been discussed that Equestria has things from all kinds of time periods. It has quite a bit middle ages, but it has the technology of cannons and such. Y'know?

[The Wandering Magus]

I postulate that magitch is controlled by a mix of actual technology and runes and gems that hold actual magical energy.  The Ponyville Train uses steam power, for instance, but it could be that some of the other things inside use magic.  There might even be interaction between the two, with electric generators being run by Griffonic lightning runes and magic generators powered by Tesla coils.

Now, what of Herbology and Alchemical minerals and plants found within Equestria?  They already have a wide variety of magical plants.

Truthflower, Heart's Desire, Poison Joke, Zap Apples...

And alchemical minerals and materials are plentiful as well!  Distilled rainbow, cloud tufts, pegasus feathers, dragon scales, unicorn horn filings...

[WolfsGhost]

Off topic posts removed.

WolfsGhost
LoE Writer and Moderator

[Book Smarts]

Trains are mixed in Equestria, they have trains that run on coal and then some that are pulled by earth ponies as well.

[Dr. Krest]

Technology is not Science. Magical technology does not need Science.

Alchemy is not potion making (stupid MMOs confusing people...), it is the manipulation of the essence of something. Potion making falls under simple Chemistry. It uses both Magic and Science, but has its own concepts and thus must still be learned separately.

There were two sides to Alchemy:

Manipulation of things, such as physical properties or even magical formulae. This is the side that included Chemistry.

The study of the Natural Laws, the Natural Universe, etc and how to go against the "System"/"Natural Order". This is the side that held the idea of the Great Work and the Philosopher's Stone. It was also quantum in nature which is why physicists would be able to understand this side better while simple chemists would better understand the other.


On-topic though:

Equestria has its own unique Natural Laws tied to Magic. Fans have theorized that this was caused by the Unicorns during the time when the 3 races were at odds. It is believed that Equestria has a barrier around it that contains this alternative Natural Order. This is not canon.

Equestria's methods are based on magical - not scientific - concepts and they use whatever magical energy source MLP has (mana or something like it) to power technology. If not, they use steam tech or stuff like it as shown in the train episodes.

[The Wandering Magus]

Technology is not Science. Magical technology does not need Science.

Alchemy is not potion making (stupid MMOs confusing people...), it is the manipulation of the essence of something. Potion making falls under simple Chemistry. It uses both Magic and Science, but has its own concepts and thus must still be learned separately.

There were two sides to Alchemy:

Manipulation of things, such as physical properties or even magical formulae. This is the side that included Chemistry.

The study of the Natural Laws, the Natural Universe, etc and how to go against the "System"/"Natural Order". This is the side that held the idea of the Great Work and the Philosopher's Stone. It was also quantum in nature which is why physicists would be able to understand this side better while simple chemists would better understand the other.


On-topic though:

Equestria has its own unique Natural Laws tied to Magic. Fans have theorized that this was caused by the Unicorns during the time when the 3 races were at odds. It is believed that Equestria has a barrier around it that contains this alternative Natural Order. This is not canon.

Equestria's methods are based on magical - not scientific - concepts and they use whatever magical energy source MLP has (mana or something like it) to power technology. If not, they use steam tech or stuff like it as shown in the train episodes.

What think you of my postulations on the biological nature of magic on page 2, or on the interaction between technology and magic?

Spoiler: if you're too lazy... • show

[quote author=The Wandering Magus link=topic=642.msg24964#msg24964 date=1333207537]
all types of magic are different but essentially driven by the same thing: willpower.  They are also seamlessly intertwined with pony biology; in fact, mana channels in ponies work remarkably like Chi lines in humans, affecting every part of the body and being effected by the body in turn.  Focus points of the channels differ from race to race.

For instance, the main focus point on unicorns is obviously the horn.  Although on the outside it is mostly hardened bone, it can still feel sensations of heat, and is filled with mana channels linked directly to the unicorn's neurological system.

Pegasus ponies have less obvious magic, but their focus points are clearly distributed throughout the wings.  Although their biology is generally optimized, their flight is actually predicated on their special magic aura, which creates an invisible aerodynamic shield around them and channels the wind.  This same shield is what allows them to walk on clouds or create storms and gale winds.  It is not only weather, but also to a certain extent gravity-based, and with careful training it is theoretically possible for pegasi to control gravity much as they control weather.

Earth ponies are by far the least obvious in terms of magic.  Their mana channels do not have specific focus points that I can think of, except perhaps their hooves.  They are linked intimately with the ley energies rooted in the very soil of Equestria, thus giving them access to their plant abilities.

There is crossover between the three races whenever focus points are placed differently due to genetics; for example, some unicorns are capable of flight due to vestigial wing focus points left over from pegasus ancestry.  Some pegasi have focus points on their hooves, linking them with the ley energies and thus with the earth.
[/quote][quote author=The Wandering Magus link=topic=642.msg45585#msg45585 date=1333737398]
Now biologically, the mana channels within the body are most concentrated in organs called mana glands.  These glands contain pockets of concentrate mana surrounded by cells which purify the substance.  Small resonance channels act like tiny biological pumps, bringing mana into magic resonance coils which interact with the aether of the Equestrian atmosphere.  When these coils resonate together, they create the magic fields which in turn create the observable effects, such as giving off electromagnetic waves.

Unicorn horns are comprised of a thick bundle of nerves called a horn chord with mana channels and blood vessels surrounding it and branching out into a biological array of mana glands.  Marrow insulates and protects the glands and chord from damage and excessive vibration.  Near the base of the horn are pheremone glands linked to some of the mana channels leading to a small opening at the tip of the horn.  These sensitive constructs are surrounded in turn by the bony horn itself, which being hard layers of dead cells has no nerves or blood vessels to damage.  Due to varying thickness along its length however, valleys in the horn and especially the base and tip of the horn can be sensitive to vibration and temperature differences.

Pegasus wings themselves are mostly similar to a mix between bird and bat wings; three "finger feather" bone structures extend from the wrist joint along with tendons connected to muscles at the base of the elbow joint on the wing.  These "finger feather" bones are crucial to pegasus magic.  The structure is similar to unicorn horns: a core bundle of nerves, blood vessels and mana channels with mana glands branching out from it, surrounded by protective marrow and sheathed in bone.  Unlike unicorn horns, however, the bones here are covered with two additional layers of flesh- a layer of blood vessel-dense spongy tissue, and a layer of nerve-dense skin, which are then connected to the less sensitive skin stretching between "finger feathers" and the arm.  These sensitive areas are protected by layers of down and rigid bony feathers.  When stimulated in particular manners, the spongy tissue fills with blood, causing the wings to involuntarily flare and the protective feathers to rise, exposing the sensitive down and skin beneath in a vestigial courting display.

Earth pony mana focus points are as of yet unknown, but are believed to contain similar constructs of mana channels and glands.
[/quote]

[Dr. Krest]

What think you of my postulations on the biological nature of magic on page 2, or on the interaction between technology and magic?

There are many kinds of Vital Energy. There's Chi, Mana, Odyle, and more - someone work like Chi and come from within each individual. Others are free in the atmosphere and must be forcefully channeled through a person <- This is the method where people use staffs and orbs to help focus the channeling and make it easier. It is also the basic concept of mana.

Your theory's fatal flaw was in the assumption that mana lines within ponies were of a physical basis. Studies of such channels in humans are based around the concept of the Astral body, not the Physical body. This is because vital energies are believed to be just as metaphysical as the astral body and that to channel magic from metaphysical to physical humans must be able to do so from the astral body to the physical body.

Once magic gets to the physical body it automatically goes to the focus point(s) the practitioner has chosen. For unicorns this would be the horn. For humans the hands or where the third eye is supposed to be seems to be the natural choice with the hands being more favored because of the ability to attach staffs or orbs to them. Unicorn horns, on the other hand, are perhaps more useful than staffs or orbs even by themselves and thus are the best choice since the horn protrudes directly from the theoretical third eye point.

It is possible that unicorn horns are quite sensitive, being a magical focus, and thus putting a focus object on the horn itself could be disastrous and annoying. This would explain why crowns and tiaras are favored by all horn users since their proximity could be used to help focus the magic. As shown when Twilight's crown connected to all the elements, crowns are perhaps once of the best focusing objects a magic user could ever have.


While your mana glands explanation is plausible you must realize that it would not be sufficient enough to properly channel vital energies. Even if it is true an astral side to ponies would fulfill everything the physical body does not and thus make it more plausible.

[The Wandering Magus]

What think you of my postulations on the biological nature of magic on page 2, or on the interaction between technology and magic?

There are many kinds of Vital Energy. There's Chi, Mana, Odyle, and more - someone work like Chi and come from within each individual. Others are free in the atmosphere and must be forcefully channeled through a person <- This is the method where people use staffs and orbs to help focus the channeling and make it easier. It is also the basic concept of mana.

Your theory's fatal flaw was in the assumption that mana lines within ponies were of a physical basis. Studies of such channels in humans are based around the concept of the Astral body, not the Physical body. This is because vital energies are believed to be just as metaphysical as the astral body and that to channel magic from metaphysical to physical humans must be able to do so from the astral body to the physical body.

Once magic gets to the physical body it automatically goes to the focus point(s) the practitioner has chosen. For unicorns this would be the horn. For humans the hands or where the third eye is supposed to be seems to be the natural choice with the hands being more favored because of the ability to attach staffs or orbs to them. Unicorn horns, on the other hand, are perhaps more useful than staffs or orbs even by themselves and thus are the best choice since the horn protrudes directly from the theoretical third eye point.

It is possible that unicorn horns are quite sensitive, being a magical focus, and thus putting a focus object on the horn itself could be disastrous and annoying. This would explain why crowns and tiaras are favored by all horn users since their proximity could be used to help focus the magic. As shown when Twilight's crown connected to all the elements, crowns are perhaps once of the best focusing objects a magic user could ever have.


While your mana glands explanation is plausible you must realize that it would not be sufficient enough to properly channel vital energies. Even if it is true an astral side to ponies would fulfill everything the physical body does not and thus make it more plausible.

In the traditional study of Chi, the lines and channels seem to be quite physical, or at least extremely interconnected with the physical to a medical extent.  The more "immediate" applications of chi users may seem much more metaphysical, but the lasting effects linked to hot and cool chi diets, acupuncture, breathing exercises and massaging certain focus points of the body seems quite biological in nature despite the West's best efforts to find such lines in the body.  Perhaps it was my focus on a Chi-like explanation that blinded me to a possibly more metaphysical explanation.

Perhaps there is a common ground between both theories, and the truth is a mixture of both physical and metaphysical components?  And regardless, it does seem that the science of magic is repeatable and experiment-able enough that it might not be improper to say that the "metaphysical" may imply be another form of the physical; in the same way magnetism cannot be sensed by any of the senses yet physically effects objects and is called a physical force, so perhaps the same is with magic?

[Dr. Krest]

What think you of my postulations on the biological nature of magic on page 2, or on the interaction between technology and magic?

There are many kinds of Vital Energy. There's Chi, Mana, Odyle, and more - someone work like Chi and come from within each individual. Others are free in the atmosphere and must be forcefully channeled through a person <- This is the method where people use staffs and orbs to help focus the channeling and make it easier. It is also the basic concept of mana.

Your theory's fatal flaw was in the assumption that mana lines within ponies were of a physical basis. Studies of such channels in humans are based around the concept of the Astral body, not the Physical body. This is because vital energies are believed to be just as metaphysical as the astral body and that to channel magic from metaphysical to physical humans must be able to do so from the astral body to the physical body.

Once magic gets to the physical body it automatically goes to the focus point(s) the practitioner has chosen. For unicorns this would be the horn. For humans the hands or where the third eye is supposed to be seems to be the natural choice with the hands being more favored because of the ability to attach staffs or orbs to them. Unicorn horns, on the other hand, are perhaps more useful than staffs or orbs even by themselves and thus are the best choice since the horn protrudes directly from the theoretical third eye point.

It is possible that unicorn horns are quite sensitive, being a magical focus, and thus putting a focus object on the horn itself could be disastrous and annoying. This would explain why crowns and tiaras are favored by all horn users since their proximity could be used to help focus the magic. As shown when Twilight's crown connected to all the elements, crowns are perhaps once of the best focusing objects a magic user could ever have.


While your mana glands explanation is plausible you must realize that it would not be sufficient enough to properly channel vital energies. Even if it is true an astral side to ponies would fulfill everything the physical body does not and thus make it more plausible.

In the traditional study of Chi, the lines and channels seem to be quite physical, or at least extremely interconnected with the physical to a medical extent.  The more "immediate" applications of chi users may seem much more metaphysical, but the lasting effects linked to hot and cool chi diets, acupuncture, breathing exercises and massaging certain focus points of the body seems quite biological in nature despite the West's best efforts to find such lines in the body.  Perhaps it was my focus on a Chi-like explanation that blinded me to a possibly more metaphysical explanation.

Perhaps there is a common ground between both theories, and the truth is a mixture of both physical and metaphysical components?  And regardless, it does seem that the science of magic is repeatable and experiment-able enough that it might not be improper to say that the "metaphysical" may imply be another form of the physical; in the same way magnetism cannot be sensed by any of the senses yet physically effects objects and is called a physical force, so perhaps the same is with magic?

That's what I've always believed (and I've learned). I'd suggest looking up the concept of the Fifth Force and how it relates to dark matter. In Alchemy the "Great Work" supposedly could be made from starting with a "black substance" and going through multiple stages till the Work was complete. What if the Great Work was a representative idea for any Vital Energy and the stages were unique depending on which Work (Vital Energy) was formed from the original black substance (dark matter)?

That's just a theory of mine.

[LemonDrop]

This PDF explains alot about age determination...

http://fs10n3.sendspace.com/dl/aa9e630d3929aadb4b3e2c5351b51c09/4fa9d8e277713a77/qlh62e/MLP%20Age%20Determination.pdf

[The Wandering Magus]

This PDF explains alot about age determination...

http://fs10n3.sendspace.com/dl/aa9e630d3929aadb4b3e2c5351b51c09/4fa9d8e277713a77/qlh62e/MLP%20Age%20Determination.pdf

too bad the clocks kept changing throughout the two seasons, eh?  from eight hour clocks to twelve hour clocks.

[LemonDrop]

This PDF explains alot about age determination...

http://fs10n3.sendspace.com/dl/aa9e630d3929aadb4b3e2c5351b51c09/4fa9d8e277713a77/qlh62e/MLP%20Age%20Determination.pdf

too bad the clocks kept changing throughout the two seasons, eh?  from eight hour clocks to twelve hour clocks.

Who needs clocks

[The Wandering Magus]

This PDF explains alot about age determination...

http://fs10n3.sendspace.com/dl/aa9e630d3929aadb4b3e2c5351b51c09/4fa9d8e277713a77/qlh62e/MLP%20Age%20Determination.pdf

too bad the clocks kept changing throughout the two seasons, eh?  from eight hour clocks to twelve hour clocks.

Who needs clocks

when you're trying to calculate temporal quantities?

[Dr. Krest]

This PDF explains alot about age determination...

http://fs10n3.sendspace.com/dl/aa9e630d3929aadb4b3e2c5351b51c09/4fa9d8e277713a77/qlh62e/MLP%20Age%20Determination.pdf

too bad the clocks kept changing throughout the two seasons, eh?  from eight hour clocks to twelve hour clocks.

Who needs clocks

when you're trying to calculate temporal quantities?

All time is determined by the concepts of day and night as well as celestial revolutions such as the solstices. Clocks are irrelevant if time is defined only by what Celestia dictates.

[The Wandering Magus]

This PDF explains alot about age determination...

http://fs10n3.sendspace.com/dl/aa9e630d3929aadb4b3e2c5351b51c09/4fa9d8e277713a77/qlh62e/MLP%20Age%20Determination.pdf

too bad the clocks kept changing throughout the two seasons, eh?  from eight hour clocks to twelve hour clocks.

Who needs clocks

when you're trying to calculate temporal quantities?

All time is determined by the concepts of day and night as well as celestial revolutions such as the solstices. Clocks are irrelevant if time is defined only by what Celestia dictates.

And if Celestia is erratic in her raising and lowering of the Sun, well....

[Albino]

The walls of text are sorta ominous. o-o Anywai, I'm kinda leaning towards the kind of thing that Fairy Tail has, where magic is used to power machinery, but can be used in other ways as well. Like in the Flim Flam Brothers episode, where they use their magic to speed up the machine. ouo

[The Wandering Magus]

The walls of text are sorta ominous. o-o Anywai, I'm kinda leaning towards the kind of thing that Fairy Tail has, where magic is used to power machinery, but can be used in other ways as well. Like in the Flim Flam Brothers episode, where they use their magic to speed up the machine. ouo

You mean like I described in my earlier analysis of the mixture of science and technology?

I postulate that magitch is controlled by a mix of actual technology and runes and gems that hold actual magical energy.  The Ponyville Train uses steam power, for instance, but it could be that some of the other things inside use magic.  There might even be interaction between the two, with electric generators being run by Griffonic lightning runes and magic generators powered by Tesla coils.

Now, what of Herbology and Alchemical minerals and plants found within Equestria?  They already have a wide variety of magical plants.

Truthflower, Heart's Desire, Poison Joke, Zap Apples...

And alchemical minerals and materials are plentiful as well!  Distilled rainbow, cloud tufts, pegasus feathers, dragon scales, unicorn horn filings...

[Albino]

The walls of text are sorta ominous. o-o Anywai, I'm kinda leaning towards the kind of thing that Fairy Tail has, where magic is used to power machinery, but can be used in other ways as well. Like in the Flim Flam Brothers episode, where they use their magic to speed up the machine. ouo

You mean like I described in my earlier analysis of the mixture of science and technology?

I postulate that magitch is controlled by a mix of actual technology and runes and gems that hold actual magical energy.  The Ponyville Train uses steam power, for instance, but it could be that some of the other things inside use magic.  There might even be interaction between the two, with electric generators being run by Griffonic lightning runes and magic generators powered by Tesla coils.

Now, what of Herbology and Alchemical minerals and plants found within Equestria?  They already have a wide variety of magical plants.

Truthflower, Heart's Desire, Poison Joke, Zap Apples...

And alchemical minerals and materials are plentiful as well!  Distilled rainbow, cloud tufts, pegasus feathers, dragon scales, unicorn horn filings...

That was one of the walls of text I was speaking of. So I didn't really read it. Gomenasai~

[The Wandering Magus]

The walls of text are sorta ominous. o-o Anywai, I'm kinda leaning towards the kind of thing that Fairy Tail has, where magic is used to power machinery, but can be used in other ways as well. Like in the Flim Flam Brothers episode, where they use their magic to speed up the machine. ouo

You mean like I described in my earlier analysis of the mixture of science and technology?

I postulate that magitch is controlled by a mix of actual technology and runes and gems that hold actual magical energy.  The Ponyville Train uses steam power, for instance, but it could be that some of the other things inside use magic.  There might even be interaction between the two, with electric generators being run by Griffonic lightning runes and magic generators powered by Tesla coils.

Now, what of Herbology and Alchemical minerals and plants found within Equestria?  They already have a wide variety of magical plants.

Truthflower, Heart's Desire, Poison Joke, Zap Apples...

And alchemical minerals and materials are plentiful as well!  Distilled rainbow, cloud tufts, pegasus feathers, dragon scales, unicorn horn filings...

That was one of the walls of text I was speaking of. So I didn't really read it. Gomenasai~

iie, iie...   it's sort of what you were saying actually, but with magic being more scientifically studied and used kind of like electricity today, being stored in runes and gems and stuff.

***

on the topic of genetics, here's what one tumblr has to say:

Read the forum rules._anyway%20pinkie_pie%20pony_genetics.jpg" alt="" class="bbc_img">

[Thunder Jet]

If you wish to make an pony from scratch, you must first invent the universe.