Regarding this tension in the air...

Started by AlDeezy, 2013 May 27, 20:25:50

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Teal Turken

Quote from: The Wandering Magus on 2013 May 28, 20:20:16
Quote from: Teal Turken on 2013 May 28, 19:34:34
I feel like I'm not going to get enough time to relax and share my collected thoughts before everyone has "moved on" from this incident.
It'll just look like me dwelling on a dead subject. Don't expect to hear my thoughts...
please do share.  this thread is for everyone to share their opinion, and opinions are for sharing.

Well...I edited my thoughts into my last post. Here's a repost in case you miss it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spoiler: My only collected thoughts as of 5/28/13, Tuesday • show
I feel like crying, I HAVE been crying.
I never cared too much for the game itself, but rather I cared that a large group of people gathered together and decided to freely put their time and efforts into producing a product that under almost all other circumstances only paid people would work on together. There was no thought of reward, no money or fame to be gained.
In the previous year, there was one who was part of the team seeking fame, Raindrop. Raindrop wanted all credit for everyone's work, to be recognized for making the game. The other members were upset by this and left him. While everyone shunned him, we missed the fact that others in the team wanted credit, wanted fame.
Fame is such a thing that leads to devious actions and lies, secrecy and even betrayal. I wanted to believe that people, not bronies, could all get together and work towards a project without a single thought of reward.
The immense betrayal of trust, the lies and the secrecy has nearly that belief. In my life I've had more and more reason to distrust those in positions of power and now...I have no faith or trust for them. These team leaders and members were supposed to be friends, trusting and honest of each other. If these people cannot overcome greed then what of MY friends?
I won't ever share my personal experiences with trust...but at this rate, I won't trust a soul on this planet other than myself with anything in the next 5 years.

That's all I have today. I don't know when I'll feel fine enough to return to activity...

APonyFarce

Look, I've been on the team for well over a year now, maybe even two, and while I only work directly with one of the team leaders I've spent enough time around them to know that they don't do what they do because they're looking for fame. If their only goal was to get famous, they certainly wouldn't be giving their time and effort to a project that by its very nature will never get any recognition from anybody outside of this one little internet subculture of ours. Every decision they make they make because they think it'll be good for the game or at least just a cool thing and/or a fun way to engage with the fans, and the idea that they're trying to mark their territory and take control of everybody's work in the name of glory is a severe mischaracterization.

If you're despairing because this is proof that greed ruins friendships, please don't, because that's not what's going on here at all. I don't always agree with the team leaders, as any of the other writers will tell you, but speaking for myself in my capacity as one member of the team I don't feel that anybody has betrayed my trust and all this talk of lies and secrecy just doesn't reflect what's going on behind the scenes at all.
Writing this game gives me an excuse to advertise: FIMFiction/DeviantArt

Teal Turken

I'm in a very weak state of mind at the moment and I'm also not part of the team so I can't say that you're just blind to the evidence around you.
However I can say that you've probably just not been personally exposed to any of this abuse that has caused many other members, at least 9 from what I've read, to quit the team. They didn't all leave because they had other interests, they left because something was bothering them enough to make them leave. Some like Swebow have also just been kicked off the team. I also find it very odd you think bronies are a "little internet subculture", I really do.

McSleuthburger

Please realize that when you have a large number of people working on the game, not everyone is going to get along with everyone else. Problems are bound to happen when you work for longer periods of time. Different people will react in different ways. For some, they can just blurt out their problem and things can be taken care of quickly, but for others it can be a bunch of little things building up over time and then be released all in one burst.
Team leaders are not maniacal tyrants looking for fame and fortune, they are normal people that want to see this game finished and succeed as much as most of you guys do.
Yes there have been a number of members that have left recently but most of them are for various reasons (not one specific event or thing). Also think about the number of people here talking to you guys trying to show that not everything is as it says in a document or such. for every person saying something bad there are two people trying to clear up the situation.


When problems happen like this, it only makes the people who are still working on the game to work even harder to have a good finished product for everyone. I havent been moderating the forums for over a year now for nothing, I believe in this game and the happiness it can bring to people
Ye-olde ex mod
You've just been McSleuthburgered!

Albino

Wait, SweBow left?  D:

Man, we've fallen far from Love and Tolerate. http://forum.legendsofequestria.com/index.php?topic=2470.0">Read the forum rules. far. I remember back when I had just started watching ponies, I could talk about anything, any opinion I had, and no one would judge or insult me. But now I might as well be talking about my problems to any other forum out there. The brony fandom attracted me because they were NICE -- not fake nice, not nice to only some people, but nice to everyone. Nowadays, they're just like any other fandom out there. The magic left. Now I'm not saying I lost faith in the community, far from it. I just believe we should all try to work harder to bring this community back to its roots, and stop shouting people down who try to speak up.
I'm on NightWish now. o3o K.

Spencer the Pegasus Guard

Quote from: Albino on 2013 May 29, 17:03:01
Wait, SweBow left?  D:

Man, we've fallen far from Love and Tolerate. I AM A BAD PONY far. I remember back when I had just started watching ponies, I could talk about anything, any opinion I had, and no one would judge or insult me. But now I might as well be talking about my problems to any other forum out there. The brony fandom attracted me because they were NICE -- not fake nice, not nice to only some people, but nice to everyone. Nowadays, they're just like any other fandom out there. The magic left. Now I'm not saying I lost faith in the community, far from it. I just believe we should all try to work harder to bring this community back to its roots, and stop shouting people down who try to speak up.

Although I don't believe ALL of the fandom is this way, I do agree with some points. Nowadays we have people who give "legit" facts to why they are right. Take the best pony thing for example. I used to say Fluttershy is best pony to a lot of people and we would JOKINGLY have a disagreement. Now that is rare. I say that to the wrong guy and he'll jump all over me with "facts" of why his is better. But that's another story. LoE is something that I planned to make an account and abandon until the game gets released but I stayed for how awesome people are. I'm still planning on staying until the game gets released or dissolves. For better or for worse.
I have a Tin Foil hat....I am 100 percent okay with this.

Teal Turken

EDIT
Spoiler: My only collected thoughts as of 5/28/13, Tuesday • show
I feel like crying, I HAVE been crying.
I never cared too much for the game itself, but rather I cared that a large group of people gathered together and decided to freely put their time and efforts into producing a product that under almost all other circumstances only paid people would work on together. There was no thought of reward, no money or fame to be gained.
In the previous year, there was one who was part of the team seeking fame, Raindrop. Raindrop wanted all credit for everyone's work, to be recognized for making the game. The other members were upset by this and left him. While everyone shunned him, we missed the fact that others in the team wanted credit, wanted fame.
Fame is such a thing that leads to devious actions and lies, secrecy and even betrayal. I wanted to believe that people, not bronies, could all get together and work towards a project without a single thought of reward.
The immense betrayal of trust, the lies and the secrecy has nearly that belief. In my life I've had more and more reason to distrust those in positions of power and now...I have no faith or trust for them. These team leaders and members were supposed to be friends, trusting and honest of each other. If these people cannot overcome greed then what of MY friends?
I won't ever share my personal experiences with trust...but at this rate, I won't trust a soul on this planet other than myself with anything in the next 5 years.

That's all I have today. I don't know when I'll feel fine enough to return to activity...
[/quote]

I want to take this time right now to say that most of my "collected thoughts" in this spoiler were just my emotions talking. Don't get me wrong, I still think this whole incident is terrible, but not as terrible as I put it here. Rereading this, I can picture a depressive, attention seeking whiny person writing this. I withdraw my writing within the spoiler, but I don't feel it's necessary for me to write any actual thoughts down as they have all already been stated by many others, especially Magus. All I'd be doing is restating everything that already has been said.
My thoughts sum up to:
"This is an absolute tragic reveal of the inside of LoE and any persons involved with the bullying of other members should feel ashamed of themselves."
With confidence that I righted my wrongs and that others can too, LoE get your act together and cease the abuse of thy friends!

AlDeezy

Wow, went camping for an itty bit and I come back to 4 pages! I'm very happy this thread wasn't lost in the never ending pile of threads. Even some team members jumped on the bandwagon? Shweet  :3.

(post-preview: "WOAH WALL OF TEXT SPOILERS NEEDED EVERYWHERE)
Spoiler: show

Quote from: Sea Foam on 2013 May 28, 19:22:22
     My only question is, why hasn't there been any kind of official statement? Why is all the information coming from these secret 'back alley' places?


You know, initially when I was learning about this whole shpeel I was wondering the same thing. Why hasn't there been a front and center statement reading "WE HAVE DONE WRONG, HERE IT OUR WRONGDOINGS." ?  I suppose that it is because it was an insider opinion that happened to be shared by other team members. It's a deal, but looking back at it, if it is just limited to a select few people, then it's not worth posting a team wide apology. I just hope that this resolves and production of this game continues as planned.

Quote from: Tekner on 2013 May 28, 00:07:12
I would like to publicly make myself heard that two team leads called me a potato and a doody head, respectively. My feelings were so hurt that I forgot how to cry DD:


I... Resent that statement (And the many others like this lurking around the forums done by team members). Way to continuously attack your community and everyone hurt by the  recent events. Really professional. [/sarcasm] This is the comment that made me want to boycott this game entirely, and I'm sure others can empathize.

Quote from: APonyFarce on 2013 May 28, 18:53:10
I can only speak for myself but as a team member this all seems super blown out of proportion. When this all started going down I read the arguments and came out of them just kind of thinking "so what?" The accusations didn't square with my experiences, the evidence seemed trumped-up and largely inconsequential, and I wasn't feeling any of the injustice I was apparently supposed to feel.


THAAAAAAAANK YOOOOOOOOOU!
THANK YOU for setting some of the record straight instead of beating around the bush or obnoxiously disregarding it. This all seemed very big and kept under wraps but you. YOU. HAVE SHOWN ME. THE WAY. TO THINK. ABOUT THIS. NOW.
Something I completely missed to touch base on in my mind was proportion. Media and word of mouth can up the ante on anything, sometimes to dangerous levels.
But... because you say you weren't directly involved with any of this, you can only give us a ballpark as to the scope, with error bars far to the left and right. Maybe it really was just a few isolated incidences, who knows?!

At the end of the day, we have realize that game dev has fun, but is not meant to be fun. It's a job, and like any other job, must be taken with some level of professionalism. That professionalism was broken, and people have every right to be angry about it! It doesn't matter if you are really young or a "grizzled veteran of life," there is a certain expectation that above all else, if you're tied to this project then you must follow some guidelines and stay within boundaries. I just hope everyone has fun with the project, but don't beak their obligations nor respect to eachother.

KillerJH2

Quote from: Albino on 2013 May 27, 20:41:34
So does this give me free reign to post ponies? I:



Cuz I'ma post ponies.




You do realize that you've just committed the very heinous crime of having a picture that adorable, and not telling me directly of its existence.
I mean, it doesn't seem that bad; but if I would have missed it, it would've ranked up there with crimes such as not sharing your pringles, or even taking a huge bite of my favourite sandwich when I had only permitted you a small taste.

I am committing this file to my hard-drive along with a stern warning that you shouldn't post d'awwwh of this magnitude without fair warning. 

Albino

2013 May 30, 02:06:58 #49 Last Edit: 2013 May 30, 02:08:42 by Albino
Quote from: KillerJH2 on 2013 May 30, 00:28:46

You do realize that you've just committed the very heinous crime of having a picture that adorable, and not telling me directly of its existence.
I mean, it doesn't seem that bad; but if I would have missed it, it would've ranked up there with crimes such as not sharing your pringles, or even taking a huge bite of my favourite sandwich when I had only permitted you a small taste.

I am committing this file to my hard-drive along with a stern warning that you shouldn't post d'awwwh of this magnitude without fair warning.


But I have a license to carry diabetes as long as it's not concealed! :<
I'm on NightWish now. o3o K.

Tiger

So, uh, back to topic.

"Why hasn't there been an official statement?"

It might be Anyasmash and the others trying to deny ever behaving like that. Trying to subtly say that SweBow is lying.
Well, that's not working. We all know the truth and their titles are tarnished now, like Deez said. So they decided to make the Awards thing to distract everyone from the issue, as Sea Foam has stated. But we have seen right through it, and now they don't know what else to do.

Let me tell you what to do.

OWN UP.

Quote from: Aldeezy, at the start of this threadWear your mistakes with pride.

We all know your secrets now, the abuses, the offensive jokes. Don't try to hide them anymore, we can see right through you.
Stop trying to be a RainDrop. If you kicked him out because he wanted fame above all else, you might as well kick yourselves out. Stop being the abusers that you are and become the nice people we had pictured you all to be.
Fix the situation. Fix the game. Fix YOURSELVES!
Make the people in the team your friends, not your nerds to bully! Live and work in peace and harmony! Take a new path of FRIENDSHIP, not HATRED! It's not called "My Little Pony - Hatred is Magic"!

Otherwise, the game and the community shall crumble apart.
Quote from: AldeezyAnother failed game project.

A link to my tumblr above!
Tiger's OC page. Should re-do it...

HaponyHanzo

Hi,as you may know i am a member of the team for some months now and i just want to say that i am very happy to be a part of the LoE Team. All the teamleaders i worked with are nice people and i don't feel any tension at all.
Actually we are friends at the team and i don't feel like i am being bullied by the "evil" teamleaders.

aussie114

1+ to what Hapony said, my 4 months on the team has been a fun and positive experience and I have found that the team leads and my fellow team members have always been friendly and helpful.

Less drama, more dawwwwonies.

Tiger

May I make a note that your team leader, Savana, isn't a team leader in question in this whole issue?

A link to my tumblr above!
Tiger's OC page. Should re-do it...

Tekner

2013 May 30, 07:12:28 #54 Last Edit: 2013 May 30, 16:36:28 by Tekner
Spoiler: My apologies to AlDeezy • show
[quote author=AlDeezy link=topic=7297.msg610828#msg610828 date=1369882970]
[quote author=Tekner link=topic=7297.msg609056#msg609056 date=1369714032]
I would like to publicly make myself heard that two team leads called me a potato and a doody head, respectively. My feelings were so hurt that I forgot how to cry DD:
[/quote]

I... Resent that statement (And the many others like this lurking around the forums done by team members). Way to continuously attack your community and everyone hurt by the  recent events. Really professional. [/sarcasm] This is the comment that made me want to boycott this game entirely, and I'm sure others can empathize.
[/quote]I sincerely apologize that my comment was taken that way. The reason I made that comment is because, while there certainly were very serious things going on, how apparently pervasive they were to the project itself (and the rest of the team) seems to be over-exaggerated in most cases and is actually very negligible in reality. My intent was to lighten the air surrounding the apparent treatment of "regular" team members by the team leads. I have never experienced (directed towards me or anyone else on the team) any kind of abuse or insult that wasn't a friendly prod or that couldn't be talked through by anyone, not just leads. Obviously my intent was not clear and I'm very sorry for the miscommunication.

@Everyone Else: Please, if anything else I've said offended any of you, call me on it, as AlDeezy did. I have no shame in and will accept responsibility for my behavior.


Spoiler: Why hasn't there been an official statement? • show
[quote author=Tiger link=topic=7297.msg611083#msg611083 date=1369901420]
Spoiler: show


It might be Anyasmash and the others trying to deny ever behaving like that. Trying to subtly say that SweBow is lying.
Well, that's not working. We all know the truth and their titles are tarnished now, like Deez said. So they decided to make the Awards thing to distract everyone from the issue, as Sea Foam has stated. But we have seen right through it, and now they don't know what else to do.

[/quote]First off, no one is denying that anything happened. If any of us thought for one second that we could wish it all away and everyone would forget, I'd be seriously worried about that person's sense of reality and morality. None of us are that ignorant or stupid, that much I give you my word. I hate the social stigma that if you can't see anything being done, nothing actually is. Just because you don't see anything, that doesn't mean we've forgotten or are trying to ignore what happened.

I, personally, want more than anything to let the truth be known. And I mean the whole truth and nothing but the truth, not one-sided propaganda that's been heavily filtered and commented to make my side seem appealing. By the way, SweBow did lie, exaggerate, and take things way out of context to make his "arguments" sound more valid. For example, no one suggested any kind of "sleeping" between members to have happened. To this day, no one is sure where he got that from. Maybe it was a metaphor he used and someone took it too seriously. No one has a clue and we won't begin to unfairly put words in his mouth.

Another thing most of you don't realize is that as PR lead, he had access to many of our PR tools, such as Livestream. SweBow intentionally locked down at least one of our Livestream accounts and used it to leak game content. He purposely recorded video footage on May 16th (two weeks ago, long before we knew he'd quit on us or any of this other drama), and made it public ten days later after all the drama unfolded. He premeditated a sabotage attempt against LoE, the very project he'd been fostering for more than two years now. And, to top it all off, he bragged about it in a snide comment that this was to spite us. If you don't believe me, those of you with a link to his document can scroll to the bottom of it and check for yourselves.

Now, I'm sure I sound like, to some of you, someone with a political agenda and I'm trying to gain favor so that "my side wins." I'll admit that I am obviously biased towards keeping LoE alive, and SweBow appears to be in opposition to that sentiment (despite his claims that he isn't.) I refuse to let that bias keep me from analyzing the facts to figure out what truly happened, however, as I've laid out here. To follow up, SweBow locking down our Livestream accounts plays a part in why we're so slow to make any kind of public announcement or event in general.

Keep in mind that I am a generally trusting and forgiving person. Many members of the forum know this about me, and I am very fortunate to be able to call them friends. That being said, I was one of the last people to lose faith in SweBow. I try to understand peoples' perspectives before I assign any kind of blame or judgement. I understood that he was upset, especially about the inexcusably immature behavior of some team leads. It wasn't until I learned that he premeditated these sabotage videos that I realized I couldn't trust him any more. Remember that I was once just a "regular" member of these forums like any of you. I know what it was like to see all the amazing things SweBow had said and done. He truly was "The man. The voice. The legend." in our eyes. There comes a time when you need to come to your senses and realize that no one is perfect, and you have to let some people go for your own good... It was hard, but I had cross that road too. I hope you guys can find it in yourselves to at least consider what I just said.

As per my nature to try to resolve things as peacefully and mutually as possible, I messaged SweBow the day after he released his videos to ask him to please remove them for everyone's sake. His response was rather unsettling.
Spoiler: What I said and SweBow's response. NOTE: THERE IS CUSSING IN THE FOLLOWING IMAGE • show

Do note that because I am a generally trusting person, I can get very vindictive when I am backstabbed. I do my best to redirect those feelings into more cohesive discussion than actually act out any sort of revenge, however. I ended up venting to some friends about how I felt, and sent SweBow that message, which is why I cussed a bit. I was obviously very hurt.


Spoiler: OWN UP. • show

[quote author=Tiger link=topic=7297.msg611083#msg611083 date=1369901420]
Spoiler: show


Quote from: Aldeezy, at the start of this threadWear your mistakes with pride.

We all know your secrets now, the abuses, the offensive jokes. Don't try to hide them anymore, we can see right through you.
Stop trying to be a RainDrop. If you kicked him out because he wanted fame above all else, you might as well kick yourselves out. Stop being the abusers that you are and become the nice people we had pictured you all to be.
Fix the situation. Fix the game. Fix YOURSELVES!
Make the people in the team your friends, not your nerds to bully! Live and work in peace and harmony! Take a new path of FRIENDSHIP, not HATRED! It's not called "My Little Pony - Hatred is Magic"!

Otherwise, the game and the community shall crumble apart.
Quote from: AldeezyAnother failed game project.

[/quote]I don't have any clue where any of that came from :o
Let's clear up a few points, shall we?
[list type=decimal]
[li]"Don't try to hide them [secrets] anymore, we can see right through you."
We have absolutely nothing to hide from you guys. If you think not detailing every issue that comes up in our personal lives is hiding things from you guys, then I'm sorry, but you need a reality-check. We are human beings just like all of you. We're entitled to our privacy. To follow up that point, if you think that the majority of the complaints in the docs you read aren't personal issues, and that they affect the entire team, again, you may need a reality-check. I apologize for being blunt, but that is the truth of it all: You all don't need to know about every single little problem that comes up in our chats. Step back from all the drama and ask yourselves if you really need to know these things or if your reactions are mostly from shock and possibly misplaced distrust in us (I'm not saying that the distrust isn't justified or understandable.)[/li]
[li]Regardless of if we need to know that these things happened, they still happened and you can't deny that!
No one is trying to act like it never happened. No one is trying to say that it's no big deal and we can all ignore it. All I'm trying to point out is that we are a group of people joined together to make a game. Just because we're in a group, doesn't mean that we'll always agree. It doesn't mean that everyone will stay on the team until it's finished. And it definitely doesn't mean that we're all going to be perfect people who make no wrong-doings against others. What it means is that we should do our best to be a team in spite of those facts! We should be able to move on and through each others' issues. What happens when we can't do that, is exactly what you all saw come out in the form of unsubstantiated, personal vindications against certain people. Obviously, that means some more fine-tuning needs to be done within the team. We're not ignoring that fact and we're actively exploring ideas to attempt to fix that in the future, such as a possible HR (Human Resources) department that team members can talk to if they don't trust other members or team leaders.[/li]
[li]Stop being abusers.
I don't know of any abuse that's gone on in the team. I've been here a year and, I think, that's plenty of time to notice something if it's happened. To be clear, I don't consider wrongly-interpretted jokes to be abuse if they were swiftly repented for. SweBow's documents did show some jokes that were taken the wrong way, and I in no way condone the behavior at all, but everyone involved (and I thank SweBow for censoring people's names) has no hard feelings about it at all. I know this because I personally asked SweBow for the names of the people involved and asked those people directly what their residual feelings are about it all. They said, and I'm paraphrasing of course, that they were freaked out, didn't appreciate or understand the joke, but were apologized to and have since even forgotten about it because of how insignificant it is now. That's not to say that there couldn't possbly have been cases of "abuse" that have gone under the radar, and that's something we realize that we must address. As I said above, we are currently discussing ways to fix that.[/li]
[li]Stop being fame-seekers.
SweBow made an argument that Anya, Bloomberg, and Perry are fame-seekers who belittle their members and take all the credit. This is the one argument out of everything he said that I don't understand at all. It makes absolutely no sense, and it shouldn't. He didn't even provide "proof" for this one, yet he did for pretty much everything else he said. All he did was make unsubstantiated assertions.
Here are a number of reasons why all of his accusations of them being fame-seekers are ridiculous:
[list type=decimal]
[li]The only posts that Perry ever makes on the forums are about final decisions about forum conduct or, more often than not, sticky posts about the forum rules. If Perry wanted fame, wouldn't he post more? Wouldn't he somehow try to steal McSleuthburger's responses and make them his own (because he honestly is the most active moderator thus far.) I see no evidence of any of that and I am completely dumbfounded how anyone could assert that Perry strives for the limelight. To follow that up, I'm sure many of you remember Canterlot Gardens 2012. It was an absolutely amazing convention that many of you guys attended, as well as myself. What many of you may not know is that Perry was the co-founder/owner of Canterlot Gardens. He funded some of it with his own money, handled planning, financials, security, among other things. While I was at the con, all I saw him doing was running around (literally) with a walkie-talkie in hand, ensuring that everything went smoothly. The only time he got any kind of limelight was when he acted as a temporary bodyguard for some celebrities when things got out of control, or when he introduced some panelists. The very fact that this is news to many of you is proof enough that he isn't a fame-seeker. He's an extremely hard-working man, whom SweBow should feel ashamed for attempting to defame in such a childish, pedantic manner.[/li]
[li]The same defense for Anya and Bloomberg applies, as well. I haven't seen them once attempt to steal their team's work. We have Trello boards and everyone's work is in their name. No one tries to take credit for anyone else's work. In addition, as SweBow said, they (Anya and Bloomberg) pitched the idea for Ellowee, our new mascot. Do you guys know why they wanted to introduce a mascot? I guarantee that the majority of you don't. It was because of the very accusation that some members were trying to take the spotlight. We wanted to prevent that from ever happening. Ellowee is a tool for our PR department to use so that no single member can take the spotlight, as SweBow did (and I probably do with these really long, arduous response posts :I.) If Anya and Bloomberg wanted spotlight, they wouldn't actively take steps to ensure that no one can attain spotlight, themselves included.[/li]
[/list][/li]
[li]Be friends with everyone on your team and stop censoring them.
Again, as far as I can tell, everyone gets along fine for the most part; as much as any team should, at least. I haven't once been censored or told not to post or say anything regarding what's been going on. Here's a screenshot of skype just after I said that I'm responding to this thread:

As you can see, even Anya has no issue with what I, or anyone else, is posting. She knows full well that I'm not withholding non-personal information, and if she didn't somehow, she will after she reads this post. Obviously, I'm not worried in the slightest because I trust her and my team.[/li]
[li]Why aren't you guys saying anything or making an official statement?
As far as I go, I've been actively discussing and disclosing as much as I know to people on Skype, and I'm sure that those people whom I've talked with would tell you that I've been doing my best to keep them informed. Within the team, I've pushed numerous times for an official announcement in response to what happened. The biggest issue with that is that it really all just boils down to personal issues people had with the team and making a public announcement would just make the situation worse by freaking out more people than is necessary.

Already, a bunch of you have shared how much shock you went through to find all this stuff going around when you came back from some form of a break or vacation. Heck, that's the premise of this entire thread! We'd like to not put everyone else through that if we can help it. The fact is that, frankly, we're stuck between a rock and a hard place, as the saying goes. Many of you may know that metaphor from The Simpsons Movie. For those of you who did see it, remember that scene where Homer is stuck on the wrecking ball and is being swung between a giant rock and a hotel with the sign "A Hard Place"? That's what I'm talking about, and that's exactly how a lot of us feel. We either say nothing and appear as though we're hiding/ignoring what happened, or we respond and freak everyone out for no good reason.
[/li]
[li]Conclusion
The team isn't falling apart, no one's been fighting about what happened, no one's been censored, the team leads have been as complient as they possibly can with any and all team members who had concerns, and we've all since moved on. Truth is, most every time I mention making any kind of announcement about this now, I just get reminded that it is, truthfully, old news. To many of you, it isn't. That much is very clear to me. I guess right now, the team is just trying to reconcile how to handle that you guys aren't over what isn't a big deal to the rest of us. It's not an easy situation for any of us to be in.[/li]
[/list]


Quote from: Tiger on 2013 May 30, 06:35:29
May I make a note that your team leader, Savana, isn't a team leader in question in this whole issue?
May I ask what exactly that has to do with anything? Most of the points raised by people are that the whole team is being accused of some form of conspiracy or hiding what happened. All team leads share responsibility in the actions of the team and each other. Savana would not refute that.

Blues-Music

So basically Swebow "Sabotages" something he worked on for years for revenge? I'm not buying it. With all due respect I don't believe it. (I would like to point out the you're , and your in this are to the team , and not only you Tekner.)

It would harm him more than anyone else. He was here since EO times , and I know the same can be said to other team members , but still the idea that he would try to sabotage something he took part in because of how immature his team was acting makes no sense whatsoever.

Also still when you tried to explain why no official statement was said you completely stray away from the idea , and constantly try to make Swebow look like the bad guy. So still I ask the same question Tiger asks. Why has there not been an official statement?

Also you keep saying that just because we don't see something happening doesn't mean something isn't happening. Well then can I please see an example of what is happening? Then later you say "We aren't hiding anything" , and "We are entitled to our own privacy." In the same sentence. I don't really have to point out what's wrong.

Also we aren't asking any personal questions about anyone's life. We were asking about this game that is announced publicly , and why there hasn't been a single word on recent info that has been shown. A normal company would have said something about what their making , and all of that , but here we have complete silence , and the use of "Privacy for a public matter." as an excuse.

So first off you're saying you don't have to fix it because humans must obtain flaws , but then you say you're trying to fix it? I don't get it at all. Basically everything said so far was that you were sorry you allowed your flaws to be seen , and you never actually cared for them , and are in fact continuing them , but when you see that the others hate that idea 5 seconds later , and you all have been working very hard to improve?

We don't think the way you acted was the abuse. The way you did things such as get rid of Swebow , and constantly try to silence whatever doesn't agree with you was the abuse.

We aren't talking about forum posts. We're talking about the game The whole argument against them being fame-seekers is that they don't try to rip off anyone elses posts. Considering I find that highly impossible. If someone wanted to be famous he wouldn't (Even though I have no idea how he/she would) try to steal someones post on the forums. It's just forums that aren't even that popular. What they are doing has to do with the game , and NOT the forums.

Okay let me get this straight. You cant talk about something public because it's private? End of paragraph.

So the recent Swebow leaving has nothing to do with the team failing? Yeah because if it was him that chose to leave , and as a normal desire to stop working he would definitely try to ruin something he helped create.


Okay here is something that isn't a response to your post: What about the public relations? What's going to happen to it. If the team isn't hiding anything , or falling apart then a simple explanation will show us everything is fine , and dandy


Tiger

Blues speaks the truth. SweBow's been around for a very, very long time. Even if he did decide to leave on his own, I doubt he would try and sabotage LOE as he wouldn't have had a reason to. But here he tells us of all this, which must be the truth.

As Blues says, if there's nothing to hide then get to the point. The production of LOE isn't in your own privacy, it's for the public, so show us. Show us what's happening.

A link to my tumblr above!
Tiger's OC page. Should re-do it...

Night Pony

Also doesn't explain the fact why Dandy was banned for expressing her opinion and making suggestions. It also makes me wonder when there was suspicion that Swebow was giving her special treatment nopony bothered to even tell her much less bring her into the discussion.

I want to thank all of the artist that have drawn my OCs.
Night Shine and Moon Violet

Blues-Music

I'd also like to point out how many team members are straying away from this topic. We are constantly told they aren't straying away from anything , but the second people start talking about this they keep posting unrelated pictures , and videos thinking that would change the topic. So why not just stop running away , and come say something? I promise we won't bite.

Tekner

2013 May 30, 10:45:03 #59 Last Edit: 2013 May 30, 11:17:22 by Tekner
Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
So basically Swebow "Sabotages" something he worked on for years for revenge? I'm not buying it. With all due respect I don't believe it. (I would like to point out the you're , and your in this are to the team , and not only you Tekner.)

It would harm him more than anyone else. He was here since EO times , and I know the same can be said to other team members , but still the idea that he would try to sabotage something he took part in because of how immature his team was acting makes no sense whatsoever.
As I said a couple times, I was one of the last people to lose faith in him. Among my reasons were that, as you said, it makes no sense for him to sabotage something he worked on for years. That is exactly why I explicitly made it clear that that's what he did. Here is a quote from his May 26th update:
QuoteSo, apparently I got blamed now for releasing sensitive information? No, I release one screenshot, to Dandy, where her post got switched because of my agreement to some of her points!
...
After when I heard I was getting kicked, I started to post more pics for Skype chats. Not really sensitive information at all!

So... I didn't want to release this, but hell. If they wanted sensitive information release; here you go

Canterlot, that has been made so far... and it's been a year... (notice the new shader and pony models? That is kind of cool isn't it? But Ponyville haven't really been updated at all. Everfree haven't been touched)

He outright said that he's releasing sensitive information simply because he doesn't agree with that what he leaked before was sensitive information. He then begins to detail new features that we were saving for the cons. I don't know what your definition of sabotage is, but that clearly fits mine, among his other misdeeds that he admits to doing. Now, I don't believe he's made it his mission to shut down LoE. That's not at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that of the poor decisions he's made regarding sensitive information, almost all of them can be classified as sabotage, and he knows this. I'm speaking more of what that says about his character, than his intent.

Thing is, many of you have an emotional attachment to SweBow that will take time to ease out of. I understand that and am only trying to give you both sides of the argument so that you may form your own opinion of what happened, but regardless of what opinion that turns out to be, we're moving forward with the game.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
Also still when you tried to explain why no official statement was said you completely stray away from the idea , and constantly try to make Swebow look like the bad guy. So still I ask the same question Tiger asks. Why has there not been an official statement?
The reason it feels like I keep trying to make SweBow "the bad guy" is because everything that's happened thus far has its roots in him. If he hadn't gossiped about something that was brought up in a serious manner and was dismissed as a concern almost as soon as it was brought up, Dandy wouldn't have quit the team. If he didn't leak the private conversations and material, he wouldn't have gotten in trouble and would still be on the team. It all goes back to him because he abused his admin privileges and our trust in him. Does that make him a "bad guy"? I won't say. That's up to you to decide.

As to why there's no official statement yet... I clearly explained why a couple of times, from a couple of different angles. If you didn't see my explanations, then you should reread my post. The jyst of it was because SweBow, being the old PR lead, won't give us some of our necessary PR tools back and that there are consequences to making a public statement about all of this.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
Also you keep saying that just because we don't see something happening doesn't mean something isn't happening. Well then can I please see an example of what is happening? Then later you say "We aren't hiding anything" , and "We are entitled to our own privacy." In the same sentence. I don't really have to point out what's wrong.
The only examples I could give are our skype discussions about PR, future events, if/how we're going to make a public announcement, etc. I need consent from everyone in those conversations before I can show them to you. I suppose the only other proof I can show, however small, is the screenshot I posted above where Anya is giving Hapony and I her support in posting what we feel we need to and that Hapony is among the many team members who got over all this drama already.

Actually, there isn't anything wrong with that statement. "We aren't hiding anything" was a response to the accusation that we're picking sides and purposely hiding evidence of more wrongdoings on our part solely to cover it up. "We are entitled to our own privacy." has to do with the fact that all of the gossip going around about who said what and how we were affected by it has nothing to do with you guys and shouldn't be made public. They were put together like that to mean this, put more succinctly: "Our personal conversations were inappropriately made public. You guys didn't need to know about them in the first place because they aren't any of your concern, and no we're not just saying that because we have anything to cover up." Obviously there has to be a sense of trust in the first place in order for you to believe any of that. This is one of the areas I'm not going to go out of my way to prove because common sense dictates that this is the case anyway, and it doesn't matter if you trust me about that. You can choose to believe us or not. It doesn't change that we're still working on LoE without SweBow and those who chose to leave us. That was their decision and we're not letting it affect us beyond that.


Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
Also we aren't asking any personal questions about anyone's life. We were asking about this game that is announced publicly , and why there hasn't been a single word on recent info that has been shown. A normal company would have said something about what their making , and all of that , but here we have complete silence , and the use of "Privacy for a public matter." as an excuse.
I believe that is actually a difference in what answers you're seeking versus what other people want to hear. I've been answering more questions than I care to count and my responses were constructed the way they were as a result of those many questions. Now, if you want to know why we haven't said anything about the game since Canterlot Gardens and our most recent events, SweBow actually already answers that quite clearly in his document, if you've read it. If not, it goes something like this: SweBow had a disagreement with the way the other team leads wanted to conduct PR and he went silent in protest. This went on for some time, and despite the other team leads constantly trying to get him to talk to them about some course of action, he remained silent and many things went undone. This included LoE participating in Galacon, which SweBow said before his silence that he was taking care of, and yet never did. Once the other team leads finally gave up trying to rely on SweBow to get PR done, they took matters into their own hands because things needed to get done. Unfortunately, by this time (a few weeks ago), we were already planning content to show off at Fiesta Equestria and Everfree Northwest and now we can't really show anything without ruining the surprise. Remember, we withheld showing content several months before Canterlot Gardens as well. This should be no surprise to you.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
So first off you're saying you don't have to fix it because humans must obtain flaws , but then you say you're trying to fix it? I don't get it at all. Basically everything said so far was that you were sorry you allowed your flaws to be seen , and you never actually cared for them , and are in fact continuing them , but when you see that the others hate that idea 5 seconds later , and you all have been working very hard to improve?
I don't understand what you mean. What I said is that, to me, it appears some of you formulate your arguments acting as if we're perfect robots. What I'm trying to convey is that we're humans and we screw up sometimes. What I'm not saying is that because we're prone to screw up, we can justify all of our bad behavior and move on as if it never happened. It ties back into the fact that all of the stuff SweBow keeps leaking are personal conversations that were obviously hand-picked to show off our flaws. With all that in mind, it means that these issues are things we've been dealing with all along. SweBow bringing them to light hasn't changed how we're dealing with them much. All it did was make you guys more aware of them. We're human, we make mistakes, we got over them, you should too.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
We don't think the way you acted was the abuse. The way you did things such as get rid of Swebow , and constantly try to silence whatever doesn't agree with you was the abuse.
Again, your views on this differ from most of the comments and questions I've received over the course of this whole escapade. However, to address your points, I fail to understand how it was abuse to get rid of SweBow and move inappropriate material from the public forums to team-only sections for review. Are you saying that because the posts contain juicy gossip that you want to know about, it's exempt from the forum rules that are in place that apply to everyone? I find that a ridiculous sentiment, personally. Not to put words in your mouth, but that's how that argument comes off since the only posts we've "censored" were moved (not deleted) because they broke forum rules. I've posted numerous things and told numerous people in skype things that reveal what was told to me by other team leads and other content you may otherwise classify as what we'd want to censor. I've yet to be told to stop making response posts or to stop talking to people about what I know and how I feel. Regarding kicking SweBow, all of the team leads were unanimous in their decision. If I recall correctly, they held that meeting per the team guidelines that SweBow helped draw up, to kick a rogue team member to prevent further issues.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
We aren't talking about forum posts. We're talking about the game The whole argument against them being fame-seekers is that they don't try to rip off anyone elses posts. Considering I find that highly impossible. If someone wanted to be famous he wouldn't (Even though I have no idea how he/she would) try to steal someones post on the forums. It's just forums that aren't even that popular. What they are doing has to do with the game , and NOT the forums.
As you accuse me of not having proof, I'd like to ask you to provide the same. Also, I provided ample defense that didn't have to do with the forums.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
So the recent Swebow leaving has nothing to do with the team failing? Yeah because if it was him that chose to leave , and as a normal desire to stop working he would definitely try to ruin something he helped create.
How is the team failing? We're doing fine over here. Again, I don't know why he would purposely sabotage something he helped foster. I expressed my confusion in my original post. That doesn't deny or refute the facts and evidence at-hand, however.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 08:17:15
Okay here is something that isn't a response to your post: What about the public relations? What's going to happen to it. If the team isn't hiding anything , or falling apart then a simple explanation will show us everything is fine , and dandy
I don't know exactly what's going to happen with PR. For now other team leads are handling it and I'm sure we'll appoint/hire a new team lead soon. What kind of explanation are you looking for?

Quote from: Night Pony on 2013 May 30, 09:13:12
Also doesn't explain the fact why Dandy was banned for expressing her opinion and making suggestions. It also makes me wonder when there was suspicion that Swebow was giving her special treatment nopony bothered to even tell her much less bring her into the discussion.
Dandy was banned because her posts were being reposted by anonymous user(s). Before we had time to investigate who it was reposting, she was banned in the event that it was her who was reposting. She should be unbanned at this point, but I'll double check just in case. I already told them to rectify her ban a couple days ago. Regarding the "special treatment", it was that Dandy Lion and SweBow are good friends and discuss their ideas with one another frequently. Because of that, Dandy's ideas tended to go through SweBow for feedback before she told anybody about them. As a result, SweBow often, but not always, agreed with her. To onlookers, this looked a little suspicious because they seemed to always agree with everything. This "suspicion" was brought to SweBow's attention and SweBow presented his side and cases where he didn't agree, and the topic was promptly dropped. Dandy Lion wasn't part of the discussion because it didn't have to do with her. It had to do with that SweBow constantly advocated for Dandy Lion's ideas, not that there's anything wrong with that in general, and people just wanted to ask him why. Dandy took great offense to that she couldn't provide her own side to it, despite the fact that the topic was dropped and never brought back up again. This one I'm still on the wall about and it definitely could have been handled differently. I do, personally, believe that Dandy overreacted, though, It's not really my place to judge her, I suppose.

Quote from: Blues-Music on 2013 May 30, 10:12:43
I'd also like to point out how many team members are straying away from this topic. We are constantly told they aren't straying away from anything , but the second people start talking about this they keep posting unrelated pictures , and videos thinking that would change the topic. So why not just stop running away , and come say something? I promise we won't bite.
I fail to understand how "many team members" are straying away from the topic. If you're referring to Hapony and aussie sharing their input about their relationship with their team leader (which is relevant because of the accusations against us), then I hardly understand how that qualifies as us constantly trying to deviate from the topic at-hand. I know I'm not running away from it. If you want me to provide proof for the things I assert, then I should be able to expect the same from you.

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