Why isn't Cadance and Shining Armor considered King & Queen after marriage?

Started by MrAmorosi, 2014 Mar 24, 20:20:52

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MrAmorosi

I was wondering if anyone had any idea as to why Cadance and Shining Armor aren't considered King & Queen after they're married and in charge of the Crystal Empire?

Prismatic

I would have to say it goes back to why it's also Princess Celestia and Princess Luna.  Queens are generally (but not always) considered evil in Disney animated features.

Chishio Kunrin

Yeah, Hasbro still operates on somewhat old ideas like "Because of Disney, queens = evil and princesses = pure" and "Girls want pink toys. Therefore, we need a pink princess!"

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ChibiGrrl

I've heard that the Princess Celestia toy came out before the episode. Does this mean that the MLP:FiM series had to make an episode to specifically accomodate these new toys?? Or was the toy simply released before the "Canterlot Wedding" episodes could air?

Chishio Kunrin

Quote from: ChibiGrrl on 2014 Mar 25, 11:57:31
I've heard that the Princess Celestia toy came out before the episode. Does this mean that the MLP:FiM series had to make an episode to specifically accomodate these new toys?? Or was the toy simply released before the "Canterlot Wedding" episodes could air?

You mean Cadance?
Whenever Hasbro gets an idea for a new toy, they tell the show's writers to take that toy and somehow write it into the plot. Hasbro told the writers to put Cadance in the show, so the writers came up with a royal wedding two-parter. While they were making season 2, I guess Hasbro adjusted the toys a bit to fit the wedding theme and started making them. The Crystal Empire was also a toy idea that Hasbro told the show's writers to put in the show. Same with breezies.

Hasbro's toy department has a tendency to jump the gun and start selling the toys before the episodes about them air. As a result, we can sometimes use new and upcoming toys to predict future plot points in the show. After all, they were also already selling Sunset Shimmer pony toys before the Equestria Girls trailer was even released to the public.

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MrAmorosi

I guess its not that big of a surprise sense it seems like their following in Disney footsteps, not that a company will lead in any industry by following another.

Prismatic

Quote from: MrAmorosi on 2014 Mar 25, 16:57:55
I guess its not that big of a surprise sense it seems like their following in Disney footsteps, not that a company will lead in any industry by following another.


It was interestingly enough a conversation my mother and myself had a little while ago while we were watching Frozen.  There's a certain allure to being a princess to a young child.  It has a sense of being young, in a position to being widely known and in the future may inherit something dazzling.

Sure, Disney has a huge role but a queen kinda doesn't fit a child too well in terms of marketing and selling.

Night Pony


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Ryo_D_Disk

Im just going to point something out about monarchy marriage doesn't always lead to ruler ship, true very often it does mean the other party receives a title based on the rank of which the other is so in this case Shining armour would become Prince. However with that said if there rank was not queen to begin with then it wouldn't be upgraded to that, in the case of frozen you will recall the parents disappeared (spoiler avoidance)  thus allowing Elsa to take the role as ruler.

Now all this is well and good in theory but its so far been proven there is not another higher power than the Princesses which leads me to what is the important fact and that is all the Princess role means is that you have a rulers Title yes a title what do I mean by this well a monarchy isn't necessarily ruled by the princess rather her subjects the princess is there to guide them yes and is the figure of authority but they don't necessarily do anything.

So to sum up the reason there not King and Queen is because the highest rank is probably Prince and Princess in this universe, and as said before its mostly a title yes they have an overall position of power and make high up decisions most times but as proven by our newest princess titles can remain just that which is most likely why shining armour has yet to take up this role.

Oh and the theory why Disney doesn't want to use queens because evil  well no its more the stereotype of girls can relate to princesses more than queens because at that time you can imagine yourself fitting that role due to the age thing, that theory doesn't quite work here due to the Princesses being the highest rank but its a fun tidbit 

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Chishio Kunrin

Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Mar 26, 08:54:53
But Elsa is a Queen.  :o

Which kinda makes Frozen different in a good way. Suddenly, we have a likeable queen who isn't evil.
Also, Anna is a princess.

"(Ticktock, time is running out) What are you doing now?
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They think I'm crazy, my heartbeat goes up..."

dynamite

Faust was going to make Celestia a Queen but Hasbro was following the Disney demographic market and had it change. Now we are in a confused mess. Apparently you have to be evil to be a queen hence Queen Chrysalis. Not sure how it goes for Kings because the only king is King Sombra so far and he's evil.

I'm under the impression that Equestria royalty works differently. Shining Armor could be a prince since he is married to a princess and also has a sister for a princess.

Chishio Kunrin

Quote from: dynamite on 2014 Mar 30, 06:11:46
Faust was going to make Celestia a Queen but Hasbro was following the Disney demographic market and had it change. Now we are in a confused mess. Apparently you have to be evil to be a queen hence Queen Chrysalis. Not sure how it goes for Kings because the only king is King Sombra so far and he's evil.

I'm under the impression that Equestria royalty works differently. Shining Armor could be a prince since he is married to a princess and also has a sister for a princess.

Sadly, it seems that Disney doesn't have and hasn't had anything against kings. The first king that comes to mind, for me, is King Triton from The Little Mermaid. Though, kings are usually given a more aged and wise depiction. The good ones, anyway. Princes are usually young and handsome and desirable, so that matches up with Disney princesses.

"(Ticktock, time is running out) What are you doing now?
I don't know where you are, don't even know your name.
They think I'm crazy, my heartbeat goes up..."

Rissian

It can also come down to what sounds better, for instance would you rather have Queen Celestia or Princess Celestia which molds well together rather than Queen Celestia. Naming can affect a characters first impression quite a lot. Like Twilight Sparkle  molds well together. And Princess Twilight Sparkle also goes well together.

I'm also not so sure Queens are stereotyped as evil to Disney after all in Kingdom Hearts we have Queen Minnie. Which also tends to go well together. I think Disney only had two evil queens as far as I know.

Mizuki

Quote from: Trege on 2014 Apr 01, 05:43:34
It can also come down to what sounds better, for instance would you rather have Queen Celestia or Princess Celestia which molds well together rather than Queen Celestia. Naming can affect a characters first impression quite a lot. Like Twilight Sparkle  molds well together. And Princess Twilight Sparkle also goes well together.

I'm also not so sure Queens are stereotyped as evil to Disney after all in Kingdom Hearts we have Queen Minnie. Which also tends to go well together. I think Disney only had two evil queens as far as I know.


I think the whole "Queens are Evil, Princesses are Good" stereotype partially comes from Disney, but I think it mainly stems from how real life society tends to vilify powerful older women in general :l
I mean if you think about it, Princess don't actually get to "rule" over anything, so they aren't too powerful. Plus they invoke a sense of dainty, sweet purity about them (in more ways than one O: )
I tried to find legit articles that talk about the subject, but have a TV tropes link instead :D


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CyanSwirl182

Actually, since they rule the Crystal Empire. They should be known as Emperor and Empress, though honeslty Empress Cadence doesn't have a nice ring to it. Emperor Shining Armor on the other hoof  X3

KingM

Quote from: CyanSwirl182 on 2014 Apr 17, 11:52:16
Actually, since they rule the Crystal Empire. They should be known as Emperor and Empress, though honeslty Empress Cadence doesn't have a nice ring to it. Emperor Shining Armor on the other hoof  X3


Empress Cadence sounds good to me. technically you are correct. I wouldn't mind to start calling them that, to be honest
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LightningDart

I believe because Princess Celestia and Princess Luna still hold ultimate authority, so only evil characters seem to claim titles that outrank them

ncisfan1002

Quote from: Chishio Kunrin on 2014 Mar 26, 16:11:32
Quote from: Night Pony on 2014 Mar 26, 08:54:53
But Elsa is a Queen.  :o

Which kinda makes Frozen different in a good way. Suddenly, we have a likeable queen who isn't evil.
Also, Anna is a princess.

Frozen changed a lot of things.

Good queens, evil princes... Anna's a princess, sure, but she doesn't end up with a prince. She ends up with someone else.

At least Frozen came out after MLP did. If MLP came out after Frozen, maybe it would actually have the whole "Queen Cadence and King Shining Armor" thing to accommodate for the changing times, lol
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