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General Category => Off-Topic => Off-Topic Archive => Topic started by: Rissian on 2015 Feb 01, 13:19:03

Title: Windows 10
Post by: Rissian on 2015 Feb 01, 13:19:03
So I decided to make a general topic about Windows 10 just in case anyone else is testing it, or is interested in finding more about it from others who also have the OS in it's Beta State. If anyone else is interested in supplying information that would be great as well.

My current testing devices are my Laptop and my Desktop both have the latest version of Windows 10 64 bit.
Desktop Specs :
(http://i.imgur.com/IVnIT5U.png)
GPU : ATI Radeon HD 6870

Laptop Specs :
(http://i.imgur.com/6z773Ts.png)
Chip : ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4250

It runs really well on my laptop which had issues with lagging in Windows 7 because its processor isn't that good despite it being a Quad Core. Heck this even ran games better than it used to as well. Not perfect but still better.

So far I've only had 2 crashes on my Desktop all caused by my ATI card. They were light and nothing that turning the PC off and on wouldn't fix though. I'll eventually edit game test results into this post. I assume AMD or Microsoft will eventually release a patch that fixes the random crash with this card. I can say so far DirectX12 is pretty dang good.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Midnight Breeze on 2015 Feb 01, 13:21:44
I'll get it on my PC when I head home tomorrow. Definately hyped.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Rissian on 2015 Feb 01, 13:32:41
Quote from: Midnight Breeze on 2015 Feb 01, 13:21:44
I'll get it on my PC when I head home tomorrow. Definately hyped.


Just make sure you do a dual boot install. In case anything goes wrong. If you know how to manage partitions and stuff it's pretty easy to do with a USB flash drive. It also allows you to have your old OS and new OS on the same PC.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Nuserame on 2015 Feb 01, 17:03:36
Supposedly this pre-release should be supplied with kernel '10.0', which they went to from kernel 6.3 in windows 8.1. Someone working at Microsoft really likes round numbers!

That and they really seem to be trying to convince everyone that its not just modded windows 8. Funny thing is, id actually buy modded windows 8 if it means it doesn't have the tablet interface and actual informative error messages (the blue screen had been replaced with a sad smiley face and an errorcode that corresponds to every problem ever). Its a technically sound OS, more responsive and stable than windows 7 from what I have seen, especially on older hardware.

I might try win 10 out as a VM to play with the new features, for gaming performance benchmarks ill be waiting until they get an official release out. I could also play the fun game where I see how little memory it can run on. Windows 8 sure did not like having 666mb memory heheheh.

That phenom II should not run that badly on win 7, my last CPU was one of those (albeit the desktop version at higher clock speeds) and could handle numerous tasks without problems. It might have more to do with whatever storage device you have in there.

Also that spec sheet is rather optimistic about directx12 there, the 4000 series ATI cards support only up to dx 10.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Rissian on 2015 Feb 01, 17:17:30
Quote from: Nuserame on 2015 Feb 01, 17:03:36
Also that spec sheet is rather optimistic about directx12 there, the 4000 series ATI cards support only up to dx 10.


Yeah I'm a bit confused to why it's reporting 12 as well I forgot what the 4k series supported. I do know that benchmarking it though it does run much faster on Windows 10.  The thing about laptop CPU's though is they have poor airflow and heat can play a major factor in what the clocks actually run at a laptop 90% of the time will never perform as well as a desktop even with similar parts. This has been my experience with multiple devices. If I recall Microsoft mentioned DX12 will work with older hardware in their articles and such. But I'm not sure how to test that out as it only ever tells me it's using DirectX12. It may likely be that Windows 10 also just handles resources better than 7 which it seems to do.

This laptop is also pretty old and overheats/slowsdown on 720p/1080p youtube videos.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Nuserame on 2015 Feb 01, 17:38:32
Hm right the Phenoms can run pretty hot even in a desktop computer. All the nicer I suppose that from windows 8 it started being more careful about wasting resources (mostly for preserving battery power on mobile devices).

You can get DirectX to generate a report on system hardware and what versions it uses, but my old 4890 could not run DirectX 11 so I somewhat doubt it will run 12.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Chibalt on 2015 Feb 11, 16:02:54
If Windows 10 is definitively better, more efficient with resources AND doesn't have massive compatibility problems with older games then I'm maybe getting it sometime, even more so if they've gotten rid of the tablet interface, you do NOT put a phone OS onto a PC with the exact interface and just say "eh it'll work", because it won't, it will turn into a massive mess of unsorted icons, annoying corner-shortcuts, VERY annoying settings access and so on, just bad design decisions all around with doing something like that.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Nuserame on 2015 Feb 11, 16:55:46
Theres plenty of screenshots and news articles about the Windows 10 interface, but why have those when you can have pony themed ones!

Spoiler: show
(http://i.imgur.com/mrGEF0J.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/6O0ud55.jpg)


Heres what I got from looking around the preview build:

Most of the tablet interface is disabled when your on a regular desktop PC (huzzah!), or just gone for good. Though its still kinda... weird here and there. For instance when searching for the configuration panel it gives you the 'settings app' as the first result which is basically the rather badly dressed down tabled version of the configuration panel.

The aesthetics are... simple would be the most generous way to describe them. Its not ugly or anything but it does seem rather bland, and the only things you can change are the main color (the dark blue in the screenies) and the font size on the title bars, the latter of which requires a reboot for... reasons.

You are eventually supposed to be able to remove that tile section in the start menu, but thats not implemented yet. I tried getting it gone so thats why mine is all weird and empty, on a fresh install its full of those weather/news/random stuff app tiles, which I never really use tbh.

It runs Horsegame and Dwarf Fortress (which are really easy to just copy-paste and run), runs fine as a virtual machine (I am running inside my current windows 8 installation). Haven't done much extensive testing with games but compatibility is bound to be very similar to Vista/win7/win8.

There is quite a lot of bugs left over though. The release is supposed to be in June so I guess the MS developers don't get much time off now  :]

All in all I would say its an improvement over windows 8, though frankly they could have just updated the back-end on windows 7 and have the thing everyone actually wants...


Now... should I try to run it on an ancient notebook with 512mb memory and some weird VIA CPU I never heard about, just to see what happens?

Edit: Hmm it can still run horsegame with just 1gb of memory. The fun things with these virtual machine is that I can just give it whatever specs I want. Lets see it if runs with 512mb and 1 CPU core heheheh!
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Rissian on 2015 Mar 24, 22:48:51
It has been awhile since I last tested a few more things on this. I was capable of running Metal Gear Solid V GZ at much higher FPS than when I was on Windows 7, on Windows 7 I had everything set to medium due to lag. on Windows 10 most options are on High and it's running great. once I install fraps or something I'll edit the first post so I can have a better estimate on the FPS values.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Jenzy on 2015 Mar 25, 02:23:57
I have it in a Virtual Machine (Windows 10 Tech Preview on Hyper-V). It certainly is interesting, but I'm not sure if I really prefer it yet. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what else will be part of Windows 10.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Rissian on 2015 Jul 17, 05:30:43
Well, it was only a matter of time before MS screwed something up again, they're now trying to give manufacturers the ability to block other OS's from being installed on your device when you buy it, it's going to be a feature in a lot of new OEM devices with Windows 10 that will only allow you to use Microsoft approved OS's. Meaning if you don't build the PC yourself it's not likely you'll be able to install Windows 7, 8, or Linux (Unless it was approved by MS, or the vendor selling the PC.) on it as Windows 10 will be locked into it, and if they want to go further, the manufacturers may even lock the bios as well.

Sources :
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2900536/windows-10s-secure-boot-requirement-could-make-installing-linux-a-big-headache.html

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2901262/microsoft-tightens-windows-10s-secure-boot-screws-where-does-that-leave-linux.html

http://techreport.com/news/27999/windows-10-pcs-wont-need-a-secure-boot-off-switch

In the apparent name of supposed security they're going to make it much harder or impossible to install a different OS aside from what came with the device.

Honestly this is a really bad move on MS's part, they're going to cause themselves even more trouble. I know I will now only ever build a PC myself. I don't like a company telling me what I can and can't do with the device I bought especially when it comes to dual booting OS's. Linux can not only be used to fix a broken system but to easily recover lost files as well as fix corrupted or broken/cleaned partitions especially if it's on a separate HDD.

The reason I mention MS even though the manufacturer can choose whether to use it or not, is the simple fact that Windows 8 PC's introduced this crappy gimmick and many companies will likely end up using it.

Some of the Linux developers are finding ways around it but the fact that this was even tried at all is very annoying. :l I may even stick to Windows 7 on my current devices to stop showing support for such actions in the future.

If I'm correct this feature will also block LiveCDs/LiveUSB's such as the ones used to boot temporary OS's.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Pipkin on 2015 Jul 17, 06:11:44
woooow! Good thing I already bought my school laptop and I build my own desktops X3

I'm really hoping(and I hear it is) that windows 10 is a step up from 8.  My new laptop is barely usable...
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Nuserame on 2015 Jul 20, 12:10:48
LaptopBrony with a barely usable laptop? Unacceptable!

Install some ClassicShell (http://www.classicshell.net/), stat! Configure it to disable all the hot corners, and you have yourself a perfectly serviceable OS.

Also I the UEFI lockdown sounds like a lot of hear-say. Locking that down would just cause everyone a lot of trouble as it would brick the machine the moment windows inevitably bricks itself with an update or something. Even then, if you have the machine in your hands its always get around the password.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Chibalt on 2015 Jul 20, 14:23:57
Quote from: Nuserame on 2015 Jul 20, 12:10:48
LaptopBrony with a barely usable laptop? Unacceptable!

Install some ClassicShell (http://www.classicshell.net/), stat! Configure it to disable all the hot corners, and you have yourself a perfectly serviceable OS.

Also I the UEFI lockdown sounds like a lot of hear-say. Locking that down would just cause everyone a lot of trouble as it would brick the machine the moment windows inevitably bricks itself with an update or something. Even then, if you have the machine in your hands its always get around the password.

Yup, Windows 8 is a freaking mess to use unless you use classic shell and basically upgrade it back to it's predecessor's UI, yes, upgrade, because the Windows 7 UI is leagues better than windows 8 UI in it's current state.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Rissian on 2015 Jul 21, 00:37:04
Quote from: Nuserame on 2015 Jul 20, 12:10:48
LaptopBrony with a barely usable laptop? Unacceptable!

Install some ClassicShell (http://www.classicshell.net/), stat! Configure it to disable all the hot corners, and you have yourself a perfectly serviceable OS.

Also I the UEFI lockdown sounds like a lot of hear-say. Locking that down would just cause everyone a lot of trouble as it would brick the machine the moment windows inevitably bricks itself with an update or something. Even then, if you have the machine in your hands its always get around the password.


Micosoft's likely answer to that is how Windows 10 makes OS backups at least from what I've seen in the technical preview it's capable of restoring itself to pre-use condition but you lose your apps and registry for installed programs. In fact a bug in windows 10 Technical preview crashed the OS and it gave me the option to system restore or reset the OS. I picked reset since I didn't store anything important on a Beta OS. It basically reset the installed programs startup settings and a bunch of other things which also broke the anti virus I had installed on it. It's basically a more potent system restore that brings it back to clean condition. The only thing unaffected is personal files.

They probably figure that's enough for the average user. However if they do lock it we'll find a way around it one way or another. If I'm correct even the original Xbox was the first major console with homebrew development MS will always have holes in their systems that people find.

Also Windows 10 discs won't be locked meaning they could re-install Windows 10 with that as well. The way they plan to lock it is only OS's the manufacturer allows will be able to be installed on the device so unless they allowed Linux you couldn't install it without breaking through the security first, which is pretty dang stupid on their part there are still many reasons to run a dual boot OS or liveCD/LiveUSB OS's.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Nuserame on 2015 Jul 21, 12:49:33
Quote from: Rissian on 2015 Jul 21, 00:37:04
~Snippety~


Did a bit more reading on this and it seems this is not as big an issue as the headlines make it seem.

Basically what happened is that Microsoft will no longer mandate BIOS legacy boot (an old way of starting a computer) be available next to EUFI boot (the new and shiny way) and... thats pretty much it.

Just about every recent Linux distribution can boot on EUFI just fine, this will only be a problem for people that try to run old software on newer computers, and that only if manufacturers throw out BIOS at all. I'm guessing that particularly on business computers legacy boot will linger for quite a while with all the COM ports and PCI slots.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Zsaszz on 2015 Aug 26, 19:50:14
I have the windows 10 upgrade reserved but i'm not sure if i should upgrade it, iv'e read a lot of places that says that it have several bugs and also some cons and pros and etc so i'm still quite unsure to upgrade, some of you that already have it can tell me if it's better to upgrade now or wait a little longer, after all the reservation of the upgrade last until June 2016, the main thing that it's holding me back is that i heard that in some cases the windows 10 have an issue that makes it use more resources of the PC than it should, so idk about that being true.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Midnight Breeze on 2015 Aug 27, 03:29:24
Windows 10 launch version is complete crap, I'm getting BSODs left and right on this. Don't upgrade until they patch this hodgepodge.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Chibalt on 2015 Aug 27, 03:56:01
Quote from: Midnight Breeze on 2015 Aug 27, 03:29:24
Windows 10 launch version is complete crap, I'm getting BSODs left and right on this. Don't upgrade until they patch this hodgepodge.


Mut be something about your setup windows 10 really does not like, my own PC has had no such problems since changing to 10, not a single BSOD.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: McClaw on 2015 Aug 27, 08:19:18
Quote from: Chibalt on 2015 Aug 27, 03:56:01
Mut be something about your setup windows 10 really does not like, my own PC has had no such problems since changing to 10, not a single BSOD.

Same here. I'm still in the "load apps and configure" stage, but I'm developing some tricks I rather like.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Nuserame on 2015 Aug 27, 13:51:47
A small thing to keep in mind: If you want to upgrade you windows 7/8 licence, you have to upgrade an actual installation. So don't just wipe the drive and reinstall from scratch.

Best thing to do would be: Secure all files you want to keep on an external drive, run the upgrade installation, check to make sure windows 10 is activated and then do a completely clean install. This has a good chance of curing the instability issues some people are having.

While your at it, run a virusscanner and antimalwarebytes or something before the upgrade step. That way you don't carry over anything nasty to your fresh install.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Necroceine on 2015 Aug 27, 19:29:45
I tried it out already. It was good, at first. I get to the problem I had later. I really liked having multiple desktops, it came in handy when I was running my Pathfinder campaign and needed access to at least five different programs at once. I actually preferred the start menu from 8, myself. I never used Cortana or Microsoft Edge.

Now what made me go back to Windows 8 was that an update made my computer no longer able to connect to the internet. I had a thread open on a forum for about half a week and I had two one hour long support calls, none of which helped me find a solution to the problem. After the second call was dropped and they didn't bother trying to call back, that's when I went back to 8.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Jajan on 2015 Sep 21, 19:19:57
I still have not Windows 10 !! I still have Windows XP and Windows 95 !!!  :]
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Jcfraven on 2015 Sep 21, 19:42:18
Quote from: Necroceine on 2015 Aug 27, 19:29:45
I tried it out already. It was good, at first. I get to the problem I had later. I really liked having multiple desktops, it came in handy when I was running my Pathfinder campaign and needed access to at least five different programs at once. I actually preferred the start menu from 8, myself. I never used Cortana or Microsoft Edge.

Now what made me go back to Windows 8 was that an update made my computer no longer able to connect to the internet. I had a thread open on a forum for about half a week and I had two one hour long support calls, none of which helped me find a solution to the problem. After the second call was dropped and they didn't bother trying to call back, that's when I went back to 8.

Network issues have been rampant in Windows 10 for me. A restart usually fixed it, but twice a reinstall had to occur. If it does it again, then goodbye W10.
Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Rissian on 2015 Sep 28, 22:05:50
I had a few major problems myself during the initial install of the release it corrupted my MBR 2-3 times and I had to manually repair it using old dos tools. I also had to turn off raid in my bios because apparently windows 10 hates that. I didn't actually use raid so it wasn't that big of a deal. But after all the troubles formats fixes and re-installs so far everything is working great now.

A few weeks after that I installed it on my laptop and my cousin's laptop, which since a few patches it seems to install fine now and didn't give my laptop any trouble or my cousin. So maybe they finally ironed it out. I decided to stay with Windows 10 for DirectX12 alone though I plan on getting a new card that supports DX12 properly.

Title: Re: Windows 10
Post by: Rainbow Twist on 2015 Oct 09, 03:14:48
Just a fyi on this...

Having installed windows 10 on over 150 machines of various types and manufacturers including customs.... desktops and laptops/netbooks and so forth.... both clean and upgrade installs...

1: There is an insane number of different configured systems, programs, not to mention a plethora of administrative privileged programs such as AV/AM software that plays havoc with the upgrade process and has a tendency to make a royal mess of things in unpredictable ways.

2: Almost any system i've upgraded that experienced weird issues... including net connection issues, were usually due to user configuration changes implemented previously or software that was making active modifications to how things were accessed, again av/am software frequently was related to the issues. Alternatively there are numerous people that "didn't experience problem on their previous windows install".... but do now.... you'd be surprised how often an upgrade or fresh install of either windows will show issues... and the question is "well it wasn't a problem before!". Hardrives frequently fail, but not completely, bad sectors mount up, and with so many with laptops, they have a very high failure rate in a slow process that generally doesn't show itself until either way down the road, OR if an upgrade to windows is done that ends up trying to either overwrite an insignificant bad sector with critical data, resulting in corruption. BSODs usually result down the road, but not necessarily. Another factor is a faulty and intermittent Memory module that only rears it head when you do something major like a windows upgrade/install.

3: It's ALWAYS best to backup your files, as well as program settings and do a COMPLETE full wipe of the drive and then a fresh install of windows, in this case windows 10. If you haven't upgrades, you can still do a fresh install via running the windows 10 within your current windows, allowing it to generate the activation validiation certificate (xml file) in which you simply copy it to a usb.... and then wipe and install windows 10, after installation, dump the xml file back in the necessary location, reboot, and it should validate and activate fully once connected to the internet. Refer to the link below on how you could copy the necessary the data file and do this... http://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/30/how-to-clean-install-windows-10-directly-without-upgrade/


Now as far as windows 10 is concerned for supported hardware.... the basics are simply this:

Windows 10 is vastly more efficient and friendly/faster/resource managed and overall supported across numerous components that date very far back when DIRECTLY compared to windows xp sp3 with update, windows vista sp2 with updates, windows 7 sp1 with updates and windows 8.x. Now the 32bit version will run back a lot further than the 64bit version due to the specific rules set in place for 64bit. Execute bit for example MUST be supported entirely on 64bit version, so there are people with some of the early 64bit cpus that cannot upgrade to 10 let alone upgrade to windows 8.1, some people can't even install windows 8.0 64bit, and there are some good/bad reasons as to why which is in the end irrelevant.

I've systems from 2000 and even earlier that work rather incredibly well on windows 10.. though in terms of being useable today on the internet and for general tasks, it is best to make certain you have the following as BARE minimums if you plan on doing anything at all really, even simple, if you want something useable.

1: CPU ~> Make certain this is a dual core.. if not a dual core.. make sure it's a single core with hyper threading. I've had some fairly decent results with machine running a Pentium 4 with HT for example... though this goes WAY Back... but for the sake of sanity and ease of use without getting mad and chucking things about, while windows 10 runs quite a bit better than all the previous versions on these machines... by todays standards using it, it's about as low end as you want to bother with unless you are indeed used to using a snail stuck in molasses.

2: The oldest systems are restricted to basically 1536MB of ram ... windows 10 will opperate easily within this to a point.... again absalutely bare minimum, but i would not recommend bothering. It would be best to make sure you have at LEAST 2GB of ram.... 4GB recommended, and if you have more, well, you're laughing then. I've several machines i had built for my customers in 2005/2006 that are fully capable of running with 4GB of ram, and i've moved those machines to windows 10 already without a hitch, and impressively, they are outperforming many of the newer cheap machines available today, quite amazing for 10 year old computers considering, then again i did have a standard back then that ensured they'd be more than compatible for a long time. All those machines used AMD's x2 series cpus which by todays standards aren't that great, but they are more than sufficient for everyday tasks and even the occasional game.. in fact they still can play many of the modern games with 4gb of ram and a modernish graphics card.

3: Outside of cpu and ram, there isn't much holding back anyone from using windows 10, even obsolete video graphics cards are well supported within windows 10 to a point, in fact windows 10 provides newer and more efficient drivers for legacy hardware than all the version of windows xp/vista/7/8.x, i was pleasantly surprised to find old intergrated intel graphics drivers that allow me to play 720p content on such an old chip and even manage 60fps video playback on youtube without completely killing the system. One of these systems is an old netbook that happens to have the first interation of an intel atom cpu that is a "sort of dual core" solution, if it were single core, i'm sure it'd be extremely poor performing. Driver packages for intel/amd/nvidia used in windows vista or newer work very well in windows 10, Very old legacy hardware, example being AMD's original 9500xt from way back when, use a very very old set of drivers, that install fine on windows 10 surprisingly.


You can download a full copy of windows 10 or windows 10 pro in either 32bit or 64bit for free directly from microsoft... burn your own DVD installation disk OR make a bootable USB (if you happen to have a modern system capable of reading bootable usbs).

https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/software-download/windows10

If you have windows 7 pro or ultimate, windows 8.x pro, make sure to download the pro version of windows 10 to perform a clean and/or upgrade install. If you have just windows 7 home premium/home basic/starter, windows 8.x non-pro, then get the strictly non pro version of windows 10. As far as 32bit or 64bit, IF your system supports 64bit, it is BEST to move to that asap, only use 32bit if you simply have no choice.

Lastly, windows 10 is not restricted to UEFI systems... legacy is fully supported obviously considering the age of the systems i've dealt with. Additionally the way the activation system works, is that it creates a unique identification for basically your motherboard in the system and then activates, every clean install afterwards can be performed without needing the "upgrade" file or doing an upgrade from a previous version of windows, you simply just skip the parts where it asks for a cd key and once you're in windows and connected to the net, it verifies what it sees for the idenfication is checks it with the activation database from the previous. IF you happen to replace your motherboard, you simply will have to call/reactivate and usually it'll work straight away. Alternatively if you move your copy of windows 7/8.x to a new system, MAKE certain to remove windows 10 from the old system prior to installing windows 7/8.x on the new machine in order for you to process a new upgrade identification for windows 10... windows 10 won't activate unless windows 7/8.x has been activated on the new system, you may still have to call into microsoft on getting windows 10 to upgrade activate, after which you'll be able to do clean installs on that new machine endlessly. This however is not guaranteed for a new machine.

Lastly, make certain that once you have windows 10 installed... ALLOW it to process all updates PRIOR to attempting to install anything, Microsoft has started to heavily use cumulative updates, and plan on release yearly builds (perhaps sooner or further apart). They also plan on no longer releasing "new versions of windows" nearly as often as all the updates will be rolled into one and provided for free to windows 10 users. This is good news IMO.

Once windows 10 is fully updated, make certain to download the latest chipset/video/audio drivers for your hardware, windows 10 is VERY good at detecting wireless/ethernet components and installing necessary drivers for that, but if you happen to run into a problem with net connections, try downloading the latest drivers for them as well, just make sure it's not AM/AV software interfering, you'd be surprised how often this happens.